Drugs in sport - government investigation

[Coxy]

disagree on all counts.

if my qualified accountant, who i pay to do my tax return, does my tax return and says "sign here", ill sign there.

And if you're audited, and it's found you did the wrong thing, YOU are liable for it. NOT your accountant.

Exactly the same situation.

 

[Anonymous person]

yep, and then i sue my accountant. which is what the players will do, be found to have done the wrong thing and then sue the club.

it doesnt make you a moron to trust the person youre paying to do a job will do their job correctly and legally. you paid someone to build an extension on your house didnt you coxy? are you a moron for not double checking everything the builder did to make sure it all meets industry regulations, which i assume you didnt do since youre not a builder?

 

[Coxy]

yep, and then i sue my accountant. which is what the players will do, be found to have done the wrong thing and then sue the club.

it doesnt make you a moron to trust the person youre paying to do a job will do their job correctly and legally. you paid someone to build an extension on your house didnt you coxy? are you a moron for not double checking everything the builder did to make sure it all meets industry regulations, which i assume you didnt do since youre not a builder?

Of course. I hired an independent building certifier to inspect the work and confirm it met standards. As is required.

Whether you sue your accountant or not, if the ATO fines you or even imprisons you, that's still on your record, regardless of whether or not you successfully sue your accountant.

So similarly, players would still be banned even if they manage to sue their doctor (or ex-doctor) for negligently prescribing them banned substances.

I agree it doesn't make them a total moron, but there's a very good reason why every professional athlete in the country is required to attend an ASADA briefing every year with updates on what is and isn't banned. They're a moron if they don't attend one and then end up taking something banned.

 

[Porthoz]

disagree on all counts.

if my qualified accountant, who i pay to do my tax return, does my tax return and says "sign here", ill sign there. if i go to the doctors and say ive got a headache and they give me a checkover and give me tablets to take, ill take them.

whats the point in having these professionals do their job that theyre paid to do if youre going to ignore what they say and do it all yourself anyway?

if the team nutritionist is saying to eat this and that and take these vitamins, why wouldnt the players trust them?

Way to compare apples with oranges!

The accountant will be the one held responsible for that tax return, because under the law you are not expected to understand everything he does. Still, you are expected to be aware of the generic contents of what you signed, and if your tax return says you're getting $20K back after you earned only $15K salary, you'll be held responsible as well!

However, when signing a employment contract, the onus is on you, no one else. There is no such thing as an ignorance clause or any other far fetched excuse for this!

Regarding the doctor, once again you're just taking the piss, because:
- You're not an elite athlete that needs to be aware of what you are ingesting or being injected with.
- Why the hell would your doctor give you something else than medication for the ailment you complained about?

However, I did say that in the case of an elite athlete, if the person supplying the tablets or injections is lying, it's a tough one...
Personally, I'd baulk at anything being injected in my body, and if I was given supplements in the form of tablets, I wouldn't take a couple of dodgy pills thrown my way. I'd ask for the bottle/box and keep it as a safeguard with a sample just in case.

 

[Coxy]

Way to compare apples with oranges!

The accountant will be the one held responsible for that tax return, because under the law you are not expected to understand everything he does. Still, you are expected to be aware of the generic contents of what you signed, and if your tax return says you're getting $20K back after you earned only $15K salary, you'll be held responsible as well!

However, when signing a employment contract, the onus is on you, no one else. There is no such thing as an ignorance clause or any other far fetched excuse for this!

Regarding the doctor, once again you're just taking the ****, because:
- You're not an elite athlete that needs to be aware of what you are ingesting or being injected with.
- Why the hell would your doctor give you something else than medication for the ailment you complained about?

However, I did say that in the case of an elite athlete, if the person supplying the tablets or injections is lying, it's a tough one...
Personally, I'd baulk at anything being injected in my body, and if I was given supplements in the form of tablets, I wouldn't take a couple of dodgy pills thrown my way. I'd ask for the bottle/box and keep it as a safeguard with a sample just in case.

And the thing is once the stuff is found in your body, it's there. You can argue all you like that you didn't mean to take it, didn't know you were taking it, someone spiked my drink blah blah blah, but proving that is next to impossible.

Hence the rule is if you're caught with banned substances in you, bam, you're banned.

 

[Anonymous person]

I agree it doesn't make them a total moron, but there's a very good reason why every professional athlete in the country is required to attend an ASADA briefing every year with updates on what is and isn't banned. They're a moron if they don't attend one and then end up taking something banned.

no doubt, thats 100% their fault if they didnt attend.

from what ive read, the players were getting injections/drugs that were NOT illegal in 2011. then they became illegal in 2012, but the players didnt know about this change (so they claim), and kept taking them.

do we know how players/coaches/trainers are informed of any new additions to the banned substance lists? if they simply didnt pay attention to given documentation or didnt attend/pay attention at briefings then its 100% their fault.

if its up to their trainers/coaches to check this listing every year to make sure all the stuff theyre giving them is still legal then its the trainers/coaches faults IMO, even though legally like the tax accountant example the players are held to blame.

quite frankly i think the laws for things like this are ridiculous, especially the accountant example. they should be liable for anything wrong with what they submit, provided you gave them correct information.

 

[Porthoz]

no doubt, thats 100% their fault if they didnt attend.

from what ive read, the players were getting injections/drugs that were NOT illegal in 2011. then they became illegal in 2012, but the players didnt know about this change (so they claim), and kept taking them.

do we know how players/coaches/trainers are informed of any new additions to the banned substance lists? if they simply didnt pay attention to given documentation or didnt attend/pay attention at briefings then its 100% their fault.

if its up to their trainers/coaches to check this listing every year to make sure all the stuff theyre giving them is still legal then its the trainers/coaches faults IMO, even though legally like the tax accountant example the players are held to blame.

quite frankly i think the laws for things like this are ridiculous, especially the accountant example. they should be liable for anything wrong with what they submit, provided you gave them correct information.

Why is it 100% their fault if they didn't pay attention or even attend briefings, but it's okay to sign something you didn't read?

Re the accountant, he is actually bound by law to submit correct information based on the documentation you supplied to him. He will be held responsible if he submits a dodgy document, but you will too if it is deemed to be obvious fraud, and you signed it.

 

[Coxy]

Because the consequences fall on the player themselves, it's up to them to stay informed of what's been added to the banned list. There's a list put out whenever substances are added, and as I said, briefings held by ASADA that all athletes are strongly advised to attend.

I remember Robbie O'Davis was banned for 12 months for taking a substance that was legal and then banned. He tried to blame the trainer/doctor for not telling him, but the ruling was that it's the player's responsibility to KNOW everything they're taking is legal.

So the 6 month ban might be worth considering, and I hope their trainer/ex-trainer who kept on giving them the supplement has really good insurance because he gonna get sued!

 

[Anonymous person]

Why is it 100% their fault if they didn't pay attention or even attend briefings, but it's okay to sign something you didn't read?

Re the accountant, he is actually bound by law to submit correct information based on the documentation you supplied to him. He will be held responsible if he submits a dodgy document, but you will too if it is deemed to be obvious fraud, and you signed it.

because if YOU are required to attend an event and you dont, and then do something against what was presented in that event, thats your fault.

if you pay someone to do a job for you, who is qualified to do that job, and they do it incorrectly, thats not your fault IMO. players pay their managers to do the reading for them - thats their job. they pay them to get them deals, make sure the deals are legal and in their best interests, and present them to them for signing. excuse me if i think that when you pay someone to do that for you that they should do it properly.

like coxy said, i would think the 6 month suspension + 1 year contract extension would be a no brainer for the players. they essentially get paid 200k/300k/400k (depending on who they are) to take a year off.

 

[Big Pete]

@BuzzRothfield: BREAKING: Shane Flanagan stood down as Sharks coach and Darren Mooney sacked as football general manager. Details on tele website ASAP

 

[Coxy]

WOW! Sharks just stood down coach Shane Flanagan!

 

[Bucking Beads]

Poor Sharks fans. I feel for them. Now I wonder what happens to the players who took the illegal drugs.

 

[Anonymous person]

""@RLW_Mole starting to hear rumours that a certain club may be stripped of its '08 and '11 premierships!! any truth to it??"

sweet jesus.....

 

[Kimlo]

Manly stripped? That's all the game needs more years with no real premierships.

Surprised the coach has been sacked, there's obviously something to this. I'm glad this is not the Broncos, I'd be devastated if this kind of thing was happening to our club.

 

[Alec]

""@RLW_Mole starting to hear rumours that a certain club may be stripped of its '08 and '11 premierships!! any truth to it??"

sweet jesus.....

Yeah, I'm hearing things about Manly too. Hopefully it doesn't ruin tonight's game.

 

[Broncoman]

Flanagan sacked

I honestly feel sorry for the sharks

http://www.foxsports.com.au/league/nrl-premiership/cronulla-sharks-coach-shane-flanagan-sacked-two-days-from-first-nrl-game-of-the-season/story-fn2mcuj6-1226593400711

 

[Big Pete]

ASADA & Cronulla to hold a press conference at 5pm Queensland time.

 

[Anonymous person]

ASADA & Cronulla to hold a press conference at 5pm Queensland time.

link?

surely its time to $hit or get off the pot? suspensions or all clear.