OFFICIAL Herbie ***** off to the dolphins

[Sproj]

The cap benefits for long term players is nowhere near enough, but our development systems also don't look to be up to scratch either.

The benefits of having a good development system is having a conveyor belt of talent coming into the system and providing value for money whereby rookie juniors can cut it with first graders at a fraction of the price.

When it's time to move a senior player on you also have a junior coming through ready to take the spot (i.e. succession planning).

At the moment we cast a state wide net and appear to just grab the biggest and the fastest, we've neglected the spine positions for what seems forever and we look to stockpile young talent by giving them spots in the Top 30 instead of being selective and only holding onto the best prospects.

If we can improve our development systems losing a Flegler or Herbie doesn't become the end of the world because the next one off the conveyor belt just comes in

I totally agree with the points about successions planning and cap benefits for loyalty being basically non-existent but basically it suits the NRL and managers to have players moving around.

On your development point though, I feel like we are starting to see with Herbie and Flegs going, the recruitment trust is starting to make some of those painful decisions. That said, succession planning only works if you don't get your bones picked out at both ends. We lose our juniors because other clubs target them, we lose our guys who are just about there because they get ridiculous offers and then we used our seasoned first graders for the same reason.

We are also developing a lot of players in all positions, look at the below:

Forwards: Riki, Fifita, Flegler, Carrigan, Haas, Collins, Te Kura, Piakura, Tino, Arrow, Joffa, T.Sims, Willison, Robati, Hetherington, Bullemor, Su'A, Molo, Wallace
Backs: Mariner, Cobbo, Gagai, Allan, Oates, Niu, Isaako, Farnworth, Staggs, Coates
Halves: Mam, T.Boyd, Dearden, Hunt, Chicken Sandwich
Hookers: Nikorima, Simpkin, Mozer, Paix

And there are others out there, we and Penrith are kind of propping up the competition.

 

[LittleDavey]

I totally agree with the points about successions planning and cap benefits for loyalty being basically non-existent but basically it suits the NRL and managers to have players moving around.

On your development point though, I feel like we are starting to see with Herbie and Flegs going, the recruitment trust is starting to make some of those painful decisions. That said, succession planning only works if you don't get your bones picked out at both ends. We lose our juniors because other clubs target them, we lose our guys who are just about there because they get ridiculous offers and then we used our seasoned first graders for the same reason.

We are also developing a lot of players in all positions, look at the below:

Forwards: Riki, Fifita, Flegler, Carrigan, Haas, Collins, Te Kura, Piakura, Tino, Arrow, Joffa, T.Sims, Willison, Robati, Hetherington, Bullemor, Su'A, Molo, Wallace
Backs: Mariner, Cobbo, Gagai, Allan, Oates, Niu, Isaako, Farnworth, Staggs, Coates
Halves: Mam, T.Boyd, Dearden, Hunt, Chicken Sandwich
Hookers: Nikorima, Simpkin, Mozer, Paix

And there are others out there, we and Penrith are kind of propping up the competition.

Very rarely do we play a side without a single ex-Bronco featuring for the opposition, and there's often a number of them. This is the result of being a development club, we're not the best at it but we've been in that game for a very long time.

I really hope the brains trust have a plan forward, but with Ikin at the helm I'm sure they do. It's frustrating - and gives me zero love for the Dolphins at all - but also exciting to see what happens next in the signing space now we're opening up some big dollars again. The squad is a lot more balanced, which is a good thing, so let's just hope we keep going in the right direction.

 

[BroncsFan]

you must have been watching a bizarro universe Brisbane Broncos. because development hasn't been a problem for us.

one of our biggest problems in recent times has been thinking we had to keep everyone off our production line and then release the experienced guys to accommodate all of our kids.

let's have a look at our production line over the last 5 or so years.

Ezra Mam
Patty Carrigan (QLD/Aus)
Payne Haas (NSW/Aus)
Herbie Farnworth (Eng)
Kotoni Staggs (NSW)
Selwyn Cobbo (QLD)
Reece Walsh (selected for QLD, but pulled out due to injury)
Jordan Riki (NZ)
Deine Mariner
Blake Mozer (yet to debut, highly rated)
Ben Te Kura (yet to debut)
Kobe Hethrington
Josh Rogers (yet to debut)
Xavier Coates
Sam Walker
Tom Dearden (QLD)
Karl Olapau (yet to debut, subject of bidding war, big money offered to lure him away)

I could go on, but i think i made my point

The issue isn't finding role players outside of the spine hence why the losses of Coates, Herbie, Flegler, etc. hasn't been all that big a deal around here. The issue is inability to find and/or secure key spine positions.

I can't even recall who the last broncos junior to start in a spine position for Qld/NSW/Aus/NZ/Eng was whilst still playing at the club?

Milf came from Canberra because we lost Logan to them, Bhunt played in the halves after he left us, Walsh left us when he was picked for Qld, Boyd developed as a 1 in St George... Are we going with Macca for 1 game? Did Knik ever start at 6 for NZ whilst playing for us? Kahu maybe started at 1??

Realistically it's probably not since Lockyer and Khunt back in the day that we've had regular spine players in a Tier 1 rep team

There were 7 spine players in that list... 3 of which haven't played an NRL game (incl. Rogers who is 26)... and 4 who left the broncos with Walsh being the one who returned.

Outside of Bhunt we've basically been unable to produce and retain a top quality spine player from the junior setup for like 10yrs... and then he was vultured from us anyway.

I am hoping beyond hope that Mam, Mozer and Walsh are the real deals... and they go on to play for us for the next decade.... but that will be the challenge for the recruitment and retention team... determining if they are the ones worth keeping and then making sure we do keep them.

If they're not then we need to find one on the conveyor belt of talent that is the one and make sure we keep them instead.

Walsh looks a slam dunk from that perspective, Mozer hasn't debuted yet but looks promising... Mam is in the infancy of his career but is showing sparks of attacking talent.

I'd still like to see a genuine game managing 7 with a kicking game coming through, but who knows if there is one on the radar.

 

[Wolfie]

I totally agree with the points about successions planning and cap benefits for loyalty being basically non-existent but basically it suits the NRL and managers to have players moving around.

On your development point though, I feel like we are starting to see with Herbie and Flegs going, the recruitment trust is starting to make some of those painful decisions. That said, succession planning only works if you don't get your bones picked out at both ends. We lose our juniors because other clubs target them, we lose our guys who are just about there because they get ridiculous offers and then we used our seasoned first graders for the same reason.

We are also developing a lot of players in all positions, look at the below:

Forwards: Riki, Fifita, Flegler, Carrigan, Haas, Collins, Te Kura, Piakura, Tino, Arrow, Joffa, T.Sims, Willison, Robati, Hetherington, Bullemor, Su'A, Molo, Wallace
Backs: Mariner, Cobbo, Gagai, Allan, Oates, Niu, Isaako, Farnworth, Staggs, Coates
Halves: Mam, T.Boyd, Dearden, Hunt, Chicken Sandwich
Hookers: Nikorima, Simpkin, Mozer, Paix

And there are others out there, we and Penrith are kind of propping up the competition.

We will probably have to add the Dolphins to that list. I know people dont like them and will look down on them, but they already probably have a better, more well rounded and established development system than we do. They have lost players because they were a Queensland Cup side. They arent anymore, they are an NRL club and we have to be really on our toes now because they will take a percentage of the young players that have been coming to us.

I've said it before, They can offer a clear path for parents to see how their kid can start in their system at 7 years old and go all the way through to the NRL. You dont have to know much about them, but there isnt much confusion that your child can go right through the grades and if they are good enough and lucky enough, they can play NRL in that system. Thats appealing for parents, especially when you look at how its benefitted Penrith. Where do you start if you want to play for the Broncos? A lot of those players on your list would have come through other teams before getting picked up by us at a guess at around 15 or 16 years old.

 

[Sproj]

We will probably have to add the Dolphins to that list. I know people dont like them and will look down on them, but they already probably have a better, more well rounded and established development system than we do. They have lost players because they were a Queensland Cup side. They arent anymore, they are an NRL club and we have to be really on our toes now because they will take a percentage of the young players that have been coming to us.

I've said it before, They can offer a clear path for parents to see how their kid can start in their system at 7 years old and go all the way through to the NRL. You dont have to know much about them, but there isnt much confusion that your child can go right through the grades and if they are good enough and lucky enough, they can play NRL in that system. Thats appealing for parents, especially when you look at how its benefitted Penrith. Where do you start if you want to play for the Broncos? A lot of those players on your list would have come through other teams before getting picked up by us at a guess at around 15 or 16 years old.

You are preaching to the converted here, I’m on the side of wanting to have our own Q Cup / Colts whatever team but to do so, we’d also have to totally change our recruitment and scouring methods. Plus, the big worry is that if we did so, we’d just get picked apart even younger. I wouldn’t be surprised if Redcliffe find this starts happening now too.

 

[BrisbaneBunny]

It's not the best trolling though... it's not really anything to be honest... we have supposed broncos fans on this forum that go harder on the club than this guy.... maybe it's been a slow day on LU...

Are there no other league forums on the web??

We have a couple parra fans that rock up twice a year... cows fans rocking up because Stampede is a ghost town... and now random souths guy because he couldn't find LU or the warren in a google search??

At least @The Don is entertaining.

Just hitting my straps mate I'llcome good I promise.

We haven't signed anyone, and the only mystery is who fills out the 30 so the Warren has been a little slow. The LU forums are fuggin horrible. Just as bad as Facebook groups.

 

[BrisbaneBunny]

I get online for a read of BHQ's latest off season drama and see a notification. "Oh this should be good." Turns out I got lumped in with this 'interesting character' and your notification made me read 3 pages of his/her random dribble about wooden spoons. Next time tag me in a more interesting thread please e.g. the latest on Billy Walters.

All seriousness though a lot of great information on this forum, I'll credit you all when I win my NRL Fantasy league.

See! Someone thinks I'm interesting!

 

[Wolfie]

You are preaching to the converted here, I’m on the side of wanting to have our own Q Cup / Colts whatever team but to do so, we’d also have to totally change our recruitment and scouring methods. Plus, the big worry is that if we did so, we’d just get picked apart even younger. I wouldn’t be surprised if Redcliffe find this starts happening now too.

Redcliffe have been having younger players taken out of their system's for years now, they would be used to it. I dont think you can spend time worrying about other teams taking your players. If you get your foundations right you will keep more than you lose. If we dont change though, we will suffer imo.

I dont think we are getting picked apart now as much as people think we are tbh. Even though we have lost some players. Its all down to the salary cap. We can only offer so much and because we mismanaged it for a while we paid the price. We also arent the powerhouse in the modern game financially we were under the thoroughbreds.

 

[Foordy]

The issue isn't finding role players outside of the spine hence why the losses of Coates, Herbie, Flegler, etc. hasn't been all that big a deal around here. The issue is inability to find and/or secure key spine positions.

I can't even recall who the last broncos junior to start in a spine position for Qld/NSW/Aus/NZ/Eng was whilst still playing at the club?

Milf came from Canberra because we lost Logan to them, Bhunt played in the halves after he left us, Walsh left us when he was picked for Qld, Boyd developed as a 1 in St George... Are we going with Macca for 1 game? Did Knik ever start at 6 for NZ whilst playing for us? Kahu maybe started at 1??

Realistically it's probably not since Lockyer and Khunt back in the day that we've had regular spine players in a Tier 1 rep team

There were 7 spine players in that list... 3 of which haven't played an NRL game (incl. Rogers who is 26)... and 4 who left the broncos with Walsh being the one who returned.

Outside of Bhunt we've basically been unable to produce and retain a top quality spine player from the junior setup for like 10yrs... and then he was vultured from us anyway.

I am hoping beyond hope that Mam, Mozer and Walsh are the real deals... and they go on to play for us for the next decade.... but that will be the challenge for the recruitment and retention team... determining if they are the ones worth keeping and then making sure we do keep them.

If they're not then we need to find one on the conveyor belt of talent that is the one and make sure we keep them instead.

Walsh looks a slam dunk from that perspective, Mozer hasn't debuted yet but looks promising... Mam is in the infancy of his career but is showing sparks of attacking talent.

I'd still like to see a genuine game managing 7 with a kicking game coming through, but who knows if there is one on the radar.

If you're expecting any club to produce spine players at the same rate as they fo outside backs or forwards... then you might just be living in that bizarro world yourself.

It simply just doesn't happen. Even from the best developmental clubs in the world (which we are right up there) ... if it did then there would be more than half a dozen elite hookers in the comp.

FTR, that wasn't even a complete list.

 

[Mustafur]

Herbie left for a pay day like Fifita so adios in my book.
I want players chasing the big prize at my club.
The money is important but not the priority, that's the culture we need.
So many of these young guys want the big contract before the success because they measure success by $$$$$$.

The Walsh signing was great on paper but in reality has caused a problem with Herbies chances of playing 1 all but gone.
It may work out OK for us but there wasn't much wrong with a

1 Herbie
2 Cobbo
3 Mariner
4 Staggs
5 Oates

It does allow us to move Cobbo to his preferred position though, we can put Mariner on the wing for future Staggs replacement.

If Cobbo realises his potential he will be well beyond anything I can see from Herbie but that is a big if, his mentality is very questionable to go the next level from what I can see.

 

[Big Del]

Players we didnt want to keep are blokes like your mate, Brenko Lee

Winners are grinners ..

 

[theshed]

Just incase there was any doubts that we prioritised the wrong centre…

 

[Fernando]

He's much better than Cobbo too. He wins over them every week on the effort areas,involvement, game awareness etc, but what sucks is that it is looking like he might have the higher peak too. Herbie is our best outside back.

 

[IceWorks]

He's much better than Cobbo too. He wins over them every week on the effort areas,involvement, game awareness etc, but what sucks is that it is looking like he might have the higher peak too. Herbie is our best outside back.

It hurts. You can understand why he takes 800?! over 650? If that was the salary difference. Still... many unanswered questions. Tough job to plan and negotiate a roster.

You certainly don't want the coach having too much say in the list construction, not just because it's Kev, but the coach is likely to have a short term focus and not care as much as they should about 3 years from now.

It really should be a lot of math, mixed with negotiation and people and business skills, that's not really the skill stack for an ex-player old school coach, the Storm have been doing it best for decades. Panthers seem to have trumped the Storm by just dominating their awesome catchment area, which will do it!

That junior to NRL pathway in an excellent catchment area is something that the Dolphins may be able to copy to win a premiership perhaps!?

 

[Bongo]

It hurts. You can understand why he takes 800?! over 650? If that was the salary difference. Still... many unanswered questions. Tough job to plan and negotiate a roster.

You certainly don't want the coach having too much say in the list construction, not just because it's Kev, but the coach is likely to have a short term focus and not care as much as they should about 3 years from now.

It really should be a lot of math, mixed with negotiation and people and business skills, that's not really the skill stack for an ex-player old school coach, the Storm have been doing it best for decades. Panthers seem to have trumped the Storm by just dominating their awesome catchment area, which will do it!

That junior to NRL pathway in an excellent catchment area is something that the Dolphins may be able to copy to win a premiership perhaps!?

Herbie is a loss but right call based on money not to match the bid. Mariner will step up but we need to buy an experienced outside back as cover for Mariner. Same with Flegler. We have young guys in the 30 who can step up but need to add experience to the 30 so we avoid the problem we had over the last few years where there aren't first grade ready back ups. We also lose Palasia and TC is gone so probably more important to replace the forwards with experience as Pereira arthars and sailor is better depth in the backs. Any ideas as to who we get that is a solid reasonably priced replacement for TC Palasia and Flegler? Guler from Canberra I think is one.

 

[theshed]

It hurts. You can understand why he takes 800?! over 650? If that was the salary difference. Still... many unanswered questions. Tough job to plan and negotiate a roster.

You certainly don't want the coach having too much say in the list construction, not just because it's Kev, but the coach is likely to have a short term focus and not care as much as they should about 3 years from now.

It really should be a lot of math, mixed with negotiation and people and business skills, that's not really the skill stack for an ex-player old school coach, the Storm have been doing it best for decades. Panthers seem to have trumped the Storm by just dominating their awesome catchment area, which will do it!

That junior to NRL pathway in an excellent catchment area is something that the Dolphins may be able to copy to win a premiership perhaps!?

Yeah for sure. I actually don’t think you should spend that much on outside backs. Melbourne don’t, Penrith don’t. The roosters do and look how directionless they look despite the best backline ever assembled.

It just burns a bit that Staggs is being paid as much as Herbie is leaving for.

It’s only one game but last night showed that with a good spine all you need are outside backs that can catch, have a good attitude in defence and make meters. You don’t need superstars with a good spine.

The silver lining to Oates being injured is that this theory should be tested by having an affordable NRL player filling in. Arthurs is the exact kind of player that doesn’t cost much but has just enough talent to play his part in a good system with a decent spine.

If Arthurs continues his form I would be extending him and making Mariner fight it out for a spot in the 17.

 

[pagey]

think it helps when most teams target oates when kicking, it's really not hard to see why they rack up the metres.
also we targeted there left eadge as we did with the Panthers, think we should wait for when we and other teams favour our right before judging to harshly.
as for Herbie having a a higher ceiling than cobbo , bitch please it's Cobbo's 2nd season for **** sake.

 

[Johnny92]

Kemp and the crew saying this about Herbie last week after the Penrith game