I hate the media!

[Ari Gold]

As i keep **** saying and people keep **** ignoring, if she is this traumatised by the incident then she wasn't "all into it".

If anyone's opinion i trust it's her doctor/psychologist.

Don't drink drivers who end up killing people in a car accident often suffer from trauma too? The fact they do certainly doesn't remove the fact that they are strongly responsible for what happened. Certainly there was immoral activity that took place and the players should have acted much differently, but to call this woman a victim is IMO an insult to all that women out there who genuinely have been victims of sexual assault/rape.

 

[Kimlo]

I haven't stuck up for the Broncos incident at all.

So should they be sacked too?

If the woman in question is as psychologically traumatised as Clare, absolutely. Should be deregistered permanently too.

Somehow I doubt that's the case.

So if she's not psychologically traumatised, then it's ok the broncos player shouldn't be sacked, if she is psychologically traumatised then they should be sacked.... right..... :roll:
^ I agree ari.

 

[Coxy]

If she's not psychologically traumatised she was fully consensual and despite maybe regretting doing it, it hasn't hurt her.

Big difference. But I don't expect an ignorant 18 year old like yourself to have any idea or concept of trauma.

Not sure what your point is Ari. This woman has suffered far more than Johns has, despite losing his job. He and his teammates are responsible for that. At some point it crossed a line and they either ignored or didn't see the signs that that was the case.

 

[Coxy]

And Ari you do also realise that not all rapes are a case of someone being snatched off the street, or someone breaking into their house and raping them right?

Rape often starts from something consensual. In fact, without knowing the stats, I'd hazard a guess a fair proportion are perpetrated by people who know eachother.

 

[Fozz]

Has he really lost his job? All I read is that he's been stood down.

 

[Ari Gold]

If she's not psychologically traumatised she was fully consensual and despite maybe regretting doing it, it hasn't hurt her.

Big difference. But I don't expect an ignorant 18 year old like yourself to have any idea or concept of trauma.

Not sure what your point is Ari. This woman has suffered far more than Johns has, despite losing his job. He and his teammates are responsible for that. At some point it crossed a line and they either ignored or didn't see the signs that that was the case.

That right here is my point. As such disgusting as the behaviour was on that night, ultimately the woman involved is just as responsible for what happened as the players were.

 

[Coxy]

So if she agreed to a 3 some, it's her fault that it escalated to a 13-on-1?

 

[Je$ter]

If she's not psychologically traumatised she was fully consensual and despite maybe regretting doing it, it hasn't hurt her.

Big difference. But I don't expect an ignorant 18 year old like yourself to have any idea or concept of trauma.

Not sure what your point is Ari. This woman has suffered far more than Johns has, despite losing his job. He and his teammates are responsible for that. At some point it crossed a line and they either ignored or didn't see the signs that that was the case.

So you are saying that just because Broncos girl she has zero reported trauma means that it was fully consensual, and that just because this girl with the Sharks has psychological trauma means that she was raped/had sex without consent? Please.

To quote a movie:
"You know when you hear girls say 'Ah man, I was so shit-faced last night, I shouldn't have fucked that guy?' We could be that mistake!"

Now in the context of this, whether or not she was drunk is irrelevant right now, but from what Johns says (girl motioning for guys to have sex with her) and what she hasn't said (stop) leads us to believe that at the time the event was happening, she was all for it and didn't have any inhibitions. But the next day, she could be freaking out proper and that is when she starts to become stressed, leading to trauma etc.

 

[Kimlo]

http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en- ... 5a34649cc2 - Part One
http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en- ... 56c7bffa48 - Part Two
http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en- ... b45b8728ca - Part Three

There we go, that's Matthew Johns' side of the story, and he says she even encouraged the boys standing there, saying who's next and at no point did she give any indication she did not want to participate. Matt looks very sad. about to cry while talking about the incident, he has said this is something in his life he wishes he had never done and his wife fully supports him mainly because of how honest he has been

 

[Kimlo]

So if she agreed to a 3 some, it's her fault that it escalated to a 13-on-1?

She was a willing participant in all events that occurred and even encouraged the guys in the room saying come on, who's next. Yet because she was traumatised by the incident the players should be punished? :roll: I wouldn't expect more from an ignorant 31 year old though.

 

[schmix]

Now in the context of this, whether or not she was drunk is irrelevant right now, but from what Johns says (girl motioning for guys to have sex with her) and what she hasn't said (stop) leads us to believe that at the time the event was happening, she was all for it and didn't have any inhibitions. But the next day, she could be freaking out proper and that is when she starts to become stressed, leading to trauma etc.

Aaand one more time for those who like to skim read. Post traumatic stress disorder is, by definition, a "stress disorder" that occurs "post trauma". You have to experience a traumatic event in order to be diagnosed with it. It is NOT a "traumatic stress disorder" that occurs post-any event. This suggests that she experienced this event as a traumatic one, not that she enjoyed it at the time and woke up with regrets.

 

[Ari Gold]

So if she agreed to a 3 some, it's her fault that it escalated to a 13-on-1?

My understanding is that she willingly engaged in group sex and never said no when more invited themselves in? If true it's disgusting behaviour by the players and shows a complete lack of morals, but if you're not going to say no when you feel uncomfortable and you don't want to be traumatized then maybe consenting to a threesome with some NRL players isn't the smartest of ideas to begin with. And whilst I agree that the players should have acted differently, it seems to me that people are excusing this woman from being responsible for both her welfare and her actions. If she appears to be a willing participant, what makes the players a better judge of what's best for this woman that what she herself is?

 

[Chumbason]

Here's something for you,

I don't like Johns and I'm glad I won't have to put up with his ugly mug on tv, but I don't think this is right. Looking at the interview tonight...

why would he lie???

If he does lie and there was 10 - 15 people in the room, there is every chance he would get caught out and suffer even greater from it. The media world is already against him, so lies would only make it far far worse; if he tells the truth and it's the same as his story 7 years ago, and same as the other people in the room, then the hole gets no deeper.

This woman already has the bleeding heart vote, so truth or lies her story can't hurt her, where Johns's can because it can come unstuck, where as hers has already been excepted as fact... therefore she can say whatever she wants.

As I say, I am not pro johns and I am most certainly not pro men treating woman badly, but I also don't think that applies at the moment with this case. From what Johns said and even from the way she explained a few parts, I think there is every chance she was up for every bit of it and got off on the idea of all these blokes wanting her; some time down the track she has grown remorseful over the matter and instead of taking responsibilty for it and trying to get on with her life, she's looking for someone to blame... and as many others have said, there need not be any blame and there is often no one to blame more than the other.

 

[Kimlo]

So if she agreed to a 3 some, it's her fault that it escalated to a 13-on-1?

My understanding is that she willingly engaged in group sex and never said no when more invited themselves in? If true it's disgusting behaviour by the players and shows a complete lack of morals, but if you're not going to say no when you feel uncomfortable and you don't want to be traumatized then maybe consenting to a threesome with some NRL players isn't the smartest of ideas to begin with. And whilst I agree that the players should have acted differently, it seems to me that people are excusing this woman from being responsible for both her welfare and her actions. If she appears to be a willing participant, what makes the players a better judge of what's best for this woman that what she herself is?

Exactly right. Matthew said in the interview himself, that what happened that night was morally wrong, but at no point did she give any indication she was uncomfortable. If she was a willing participant then she is as much to blame as anyone else.

 

[BroncoBuck]

I find it strange that we seem to have descended to the point of holding football players to a higher moral code that the president of the united states. Clinton lied about his indiscretions, kept his job and indeed left office as one of the most popular presidents ever ...

... but Matty Johns is a role model.

 

[Kimlo]

Here's something for you,

I don't like Johns and I'm glad I won't have to put up with his ugly mug on tv, but I don't think this is right. Looking at the interview tonight...

why would he lie???

If he does lie and there was 10 - 15 people in the room, there is every chance he would get caught out and suffer even greater from it. The media world is already against him, so lies would only make it far far worse; if he tells the truth and it's the same as his story 7 years ago, and same as the other people in the room, then the hole gets no deeper.

This woman already has the bleeding heart vote, so truth or lies her story can't hurt her, where Johns's can because it can come unstuck, where as hers has already been excepted as fact... therefore she can say whatever she wants.

As I say, I am not pro johns and I am most certainly not pro men treating woman badly, but I also don't think that applies at the moment with this case. From what Johns said and even from the way she explained a few parts, I think there is every chance she was up for every bit of it and got off on the idea of all these blokes wanting her; some time down the track she has grown remorseful over the matter and instead of taking responsibilty for it and trying to get on with her life, she's looking for someone to blame... and as many others have said, there need not be any blame and there is often no one to blame more than the other.

The fact she said she would kill them if she had a gun, and wants to ruin their lives "like they ruined mine" tells me she could easily be lying about certain things simply to ruin their lives and guess what, johns career in tv and in rl is all but over atm.

 

[Coxy]

None of the Bulldogs have come out and said what REALLY happened in Coffs Harbour.
There's numerous other incidents that have never been made public that a lot of ex-players know about.

Players stick together. They protect eachother. That's why Johns hasn't named anyone else. he's protecting them, they won't contradict him.

My understanding is that she willingly engaged in group sex and never said no when more invited themselves in? If true it's disgusting behaviour by the players and shows a complete lack of morals, but if you're not going to say no when you feel uncomfortable and you don't want to be traumatized then maybe consenting to a threesome with some NRL players isn't the smartest of ideas to begin with.

Go back and read some earlier stuff from me. There are documented cases, lots of them, when being sexually assaulted or otherwise traumatised people lose the ability to speak, move, etc. It's called shock. That would support the diagnosis of trauma too.

She was a willing participant in all events that occurred and even encouraged the guys in the room saying come on, who's next. Yet because she was traumatised by the incident the players should be punished?

If she was a willing participant in all events and encouraged guys in the room (Johns's claim) then she wouldn't be traumatised would she? Great logic.

 

[Coxy]

AAAAAAAARGH!

That's it. I refuse to reply anymore, lest I'm going to suffer trauma myself...or inflict it on someone else.