I hate the media!

[schmix]

See I want to know what difference it makes whether she was drunk or not. If she was drunk then is that an excuse why she could have it out with a couple of blokes? Or does it make her more irresponsible? And if she wasn't drunk then does that make her more responsible for her actions?

The way I figure, if she's drunk then there's a chance her memory of the events could be very blurry. It would cast a bit of doubt over whether everything happened the way she says. I don't think it has any relevance on responsibility.

The Sydney Media is killing rugby league, seriously.

The media is not killing league, the players who carry on like this are at fault. I used to feel the way you do, but should the media cover things up for the sake of a sport? If getting it out in the open and forcing people to talk about it means that something will be done about the behaviour (both in the sport and society), then it's for the better IMO.

 

[broncosil]

Yeah, I should clarify that I was talking about the NZ woman - Charmyne didn't elicit any sympathy from me whatsoever. Big difference between a someone in their (late?) 20s who actively seeks out footballers and seems fairly well in control, and a 19yo who goes to a hotel room with one or two guys and ends up with almost a full team.

Agree with everything you've said schmix, but the program left a really bad taste in my mouth for some reason.

A lot of the program focussed on the "risk taking" characteristics of these young men when fueled by alcohol, yet it made no mention of girls being involved in any of such "risk taking" or being fueled by alcohol themselves.

I am not condoning what any of the players have done in these situations, but at what point do you ask the girl why she was taking such a risk in going back to a hotel room with a couple of football players? Hell, why would a girl go back to a hotel room with a couple of normal guys she's just met?

Is that a fair question? I don't want to seem like I'm saying these girls got what was coming to them.

I can't help but think we're missing a lot of the story only hearing her side of it (which I realise would be rectified if other players agreed to be interviewed). They way they made it sound, she headed back to a hotel room, she started having sex with two guys and then suddenly there was a "line-up at the end of the bed." Did the show mention if she was also impaired by alcohol? If so, what makes her story more believable than anyone else's?

I don't think it was a fair and balanced report at all.

That is the point that I was trying to make. It was so one-sided and I find it a little interesting that the details she remembers is one guy and that was Matty Johns, but in the same breath claims there were up to 40 staff and players in that room. Not once did she try and push a player off or say that she didn't want to participate. If a girl does not verbalise her intent or she at least doesn't try and struggle to get a person off her then how is a man meant to know she sex is not consensual.

And while she may not get paid much by the ABC, subsequent interviews will pay well indeed. Watch for New Idea and Woman's Day interviews.

The NRL needs to do something about this behaviour and it is time to start penalising heavily. I did say in my original post that players need to keep their wits about them (however little wits they have) and be smart for a change. It isn't worth the hassle to try and hook up with some skank.

 

[Playboy Bunny]

Did anyone else get a little creepied out when the NZ chick said she would kill the guys right now if she had a gun...I thought that was a little bit extreme.

 

[Steve]

Mixed feelings on the program. There were a few unanswered questions. She went back to the room with two players but said she saw the team lined up at the bed. Did she go back knowing this would be the case?

It certainly confirms though that there is a bad attitude towards women from some players. That Knights under 20s player at the end *shakes head*.

 

[tryhard]

PB. No I didn't think this was an unusual creepy thing for this girl to be saying at all. She hates these guys. She has gone through hell in the past years. How do you expect her to feel? How would you feel?
I think the point she named Johns was because she did go to the room with him. She didn't go to the room with most of the team. He was also the one who apologized later.

The girl was a kid FGS. Johns and many who were there were married adult men.

The girl in the uni room put it as probably the way it is with most girls who have never reported any instances of this happening "Me against the players,club and the NRL".

Interesting to hear the different response of the guys in the Knights who had different views on a 'guy' being raped and the girls who were with league guys.

schmix is spot on in comments.
Although Charmayne is just a slut, it is also her thing and she doesn't seem to worry about what she has done but she did not consent to rape which is what she did say happened to her. Silly bitch, but rape is rape no matter if you are a pro or a slackie wanting to get off with the footy guys.

 

[Je$ter]

It certainly confirms though that there is a bad attitude towards women from some players. That Knights under 20s player at the end *shakes head*.

Do you really think their response would be that much different from any male aged 16-20?

Did anyone else get a little creepied out when the NZ chick said she would kill the guys right now if she had a gun...I thought that was a little bit extreme.

What a nutter. Her making statements like that is just ridiculous, fair enough the players morally probably didn't do the right thing. But, she has put herself in the position, she could just say no I have to go home, she had just finished work when she went home with the players so you assume she was sober. For her to do what she did, then come bck 7 years later and bring it out immediatley screams publicity stunt. I don't condone what the players did, but they are adults, she's an adult she should know when to stop and when to keep going.

I'll say it again, she never, ever mentinoed that she asked the players to stop!!!

And tryhard, how can you really believe what Charmyne Palavi has to say about being raped, her story has so many holes in it its ridiculous? She sells her pictures to Newspapers so they cna produce more gutter journalism and tarnish the game. Fair enough the players don't help themselves getting into these positions, but it takes two to tango.

 

[Coxy]

Sounds like Je$ter has a pretty low opinion of women himself.

 

[Je$ter]

I odn't have a low opinion of women, I just think that it's alway 'the players did this,' 'the players did that,' and fair enough a lot of the things they have done are immoral and sometimes downright perverted. But in saying that, these girls must have the common sense to realise when they are in precarious positions, and should be saying no.

It is a blight on the game, but I know guys who don't play NRL, who are your average 19-25 year olds who have done things on par with these guys, but they odn't get their names dragged through the mud?

 

[mrslong]

my 2 cents

Watched this last night and a few things made me angry.

#1 the fact that they made out like this is a rugby league problem and not a societal problem.
#2 matthew johns is an animal, and they've made him the face of our game along with his brother.
#3 "women" like charmyne whatsherface exacerbate the issues by being slurry's. what does she expect? she is a pig.


basically the 4 corners interview showed everything that is bad about a male bonding environment and blamed it on league. I wonder wjhy they don't uncoverstories of certain private schools, afl, army etc etc etc.

 

[Flutterby]

I actually forgot to watch it (was listening to the footy), but by the sounds of this it was exactly what I expected it to be. As mrslong said - taking bad parts of society and putting the blame squarely on Rugby League.

I also don't condone for a second the actions of footballers in these situations, but it is a problem that is much much bigger than Rugby League and needs to be addressed by everyone.

 

[Steve]

my 2 cents

Watched this last night and a few things made me angry.

#1 the fact that they made out like this is a rugby league problem and not a societal problem.
#2 matthew johns is an animal, and they've made him the face of our game along with his brother.
#3 "women" like charmyne whatsherface exacerbate the issues by being slurry's. what does she expect? she is a pig.


basically the 4 corners interview showed everything that is bad about a male bonding environment and blamed it on league. I wonder wjhy they don't uncoverstories of certain private schools, afl, army etc etc etc.

Good post with excellent points.

 

[gUt]

I have mixed feelings about the show too. I am interested in reading and hearing the ladies' comments about this. My wife asked me what my opinion was on the whole male group sex thing in regards to NRL players and I got a bit irritated because I felt like there was a correct answer and I didn't know what it was. But then she surprised me by saying that she felt the girl(s) get themselves into these situations and this is what happens. I don't think she was blaming them as such, just that HER mum always told her and her sister just to never put yourself in the situation where something bad or something you will regret can happen.

 

[Coxy]

I think your wife hit the nail on the head gUt. Somewhere along the lines young people aren't being instilled with morals and ethics. I was brought up to respect women and so this sort of shit wouldn't happen.

Clearly a lot of football players and women aren't.

 

[mrslong]

To those who called that woman a dumb slut and a ho, put yourselves in the mind of a 19 year old girl and then think about saying "no" to a room full of professional athletes with their ****s hanging out. That is a scary and intimidating situation, and I bet most of you would just close your eyes and wish it away.

The behaviour of these players is NOT ok. I can't believe anyone, let alone some women, think it's normal and acceptable. The segment on "consent class" with the Knights U20s was really telling of how these guys view women - "it's just about how you treat them after, not what you actually do to them. If you put them in a cab and say thanks, to cover it all up, then it's ok" [eusa_doh

Some of the show was awful, including the first bit with that Manly bimbo and the interview with the Brisbane girl, but I think some of it was interesting (and disturbing) viewing.

I highly doubt any of the interviewees were paid. The ABC barely has enough money to go to air, let alone hand out cash. And I'm sure they would have loved to interview some players (they did, in fact, speak to many of the Knights), but were turned down.

spot on. Their was a world of difference between that 19yo girl and charmyne.

Still a terrible show, the AFL must be celebrating something fierce. Suggesting that because Rugby Leauge is violent being the reason behind these blokes and their sex orgy's is ridiculous!

Alson want to know what education these young players are getting from their parents? Although i do understand the difficulty of peer presure etc

 

[Coxy]

Peer pressure is definitely an issue. A lot of these kids are just kids, they're weak minded and they'll do whatever they can to fit in. And sometimes that'll mean compromising what they know is wrong.

Which is why we should continually applaud the likes of Israel Folau, Petero Civoniceva, Steve Menzies and Steve Price who stand by their beliefs and don't engage in any of this sort of rubbish. The ability to say no is a powerful skill.

 

[mrslong]

But when you hear stories like the kiwi thing that team MANAGERS were in the room, it makes it hard for a young bloke to walk away from it. Unless he is as talented as an Izzy a Petero or a whoever....

 

[Coxy]

I don't think it's got anything to do with talent. But you're right, it's systemic. There's a major cultural problem there, not just in our sport but as you say, in other "male bonding" areas. We've seen the issues in the past with AFL, the navy "initiations" etc.

It's not a rugby league only problem, but rugby league does have a problem in that many uneducated, very dodgy characters progress through the playing ranks into coaching and administration. It's those coaches and admins that drive the culture of the club and if players see them act like dicks they think that's the way they NEED to behave to fit in.

Remember the John Hopoate finger up the arse scandal? I remember reading that during a Tigers video review session they showed it, and Terry Lamb (coach at the time) laughed his head off and had them replay it over and over again. "That's great" he said.

What message did that send to the 18 and 19 year old blokes in the squad?

Terry Lamb is a dinosaur, and a boofhead of the highest order...but he's not alone. Matthew Johns, we all knew he was a dodgy character, but not only is he a high profile media personality, he's got coaching gigs in the NRL grooming young players. What example does he set?

We've all heard stories of the exploits of Langer and Walters in their prime. Most of the public ones are perfectly harmless (mock fights, climbing fire escapes, prank calls etc), but there's some that were kept hush hush for a reason. I assume they're more mature now in their coaching roles, but do they let it slip when out with the boys?

I'm going to use the words...role models. No,I'm not saying your under 20 rugby league player is a role model to all the kiddies out there (although the kids MAY look at them that way), but that under 20 rugby league player needs a role model within his club and within the game to help shape his attitude to the game, to his position within the game, his behaviour with the public etc.

I think that's the only way the culture can be changed. Even then, it's no guarantee - look at the Bulldogs 2004 Coffs Harbour incident. Steve Price and Hazem El Masri, two of the best behaved guys in the game, were at the same hotel and leaders of that club and yet a group of players still managed to conduct themselves in a disgraceful manner.

Society won't change in an instant. It needs to be a concerted effort of public education, mentoring within subgroups of society, and more proactive and vigilant imparting of morals and values by parents. It has to be done before they're teenagers, values and morals are solidified in a person's personality and behaviour during their early school years (correct me if I'm wrong any of our resident psychologists/psychology students).

/rant

 

[Kimlo]

whether she was drunk or scared or w/e, she consented and really that's the end of it. The players were drunk and off their head too, they probably wouldn't of done it if they were sober, sorry it works both ways. She may of been scared to say no, but the fact is she didn't, the players are not mind readers to realise she wanted to say no but didn't? I haven't read or seen anything to suggest she did say no, so I really can't see why the players should be blamed for doing this, sure it's absolutely disgusting and personally it makes me sick in the stomach, but it is legal at the end of the day and both parties agreed to the act.

We are not moral judges for people to judge what is right and what is wrong, if they have group sex so be it, if people want to be gay so be it, if people want to have 8 boys on 2 girls group session so be it, in the end if it's legal, it's their choice to make, if they regret it later on, that is not the guys problems. Someone people get influenced into buying drugs, if they buy it and regret it later on, that's their badluck, it's all the same. Bringing it up in the media 7 years later is not helping anyone, and saying she was going to commit suicide, and that if she had a gun she would shoot them. The way johns was on the footy show, you could tell he was not in a very good way, and the fact he missed the sunday roast indicates he's having his own problems as well and you can sure as hell bet he regrets it when his kids are/have asked seen the newspapers and his wife and him will have to go through it all over again. Too me it seems like she did something at the time, and now she regrets it badly we all do things in life we regret, to different extents.

Four detectives investigated the incident and the players were found innocent, that's all that matters, what's "right" or "wrong" differs from person to person. FTR, I find it filthy, but there's 6 billion people out there in the world and everyone has their own views on what is right and what is wrong, end of the day she consented, she went to the hotel room.

------------------------
Great post coxy, that's pretty much the way I feel. It's about the culture of the club. The bulldogs have done a great job with their recruitment, the whole club now is really a "family" club, hodgson, hannant, kimmorely, ennis, hazem, ryan, patten, all good family men. I think recruiting good people now is just as important as good players, Folau is a perfect example.
Another thing that was suggested was now with the salary cap, older players are getting pushed out and some teams in the nrl have an average age of 24, you'd think that would contribute somewhat as well.