Ivan, Ivan, Ivan

[Anonymous person]

I'm baffled. Wayne gets Saints to 2 straight minor premierships in a row and somehow he's not a good coach anymore.

well firstly, they arent guaranteed to get the minor premiership yet - they almost blew it last year, and theyre looking shaky at the moment too.

secondly, with their playing roster AND the 'quality' of the competition this year AND with melbourne out of the picture, if they dont win the minor premiership they have problems.

and thirdly - how did they go with that minor premiership last year? won the premiership did they? made the grand final? did they even win a finals match, or just get bundled out after losing in successive weeks?

 

[Kimlo]

Well there is still just a 1/16 chance of winning the minor premiership and Bennett has got it twice in two years(as if they won't get it). He took a team who previously was always around the middle end on the ladder to the best week-to-week team in the competition.

 

[Coxy]

I wouldn't quite say the Dragons are home, but you'd think they'll manage 2 wins out of their last 4:
Manly (home), Canberra (away), Knights (away), Souths (home).

With their for and against it'd be tough for Penrith to catch them. They'd basically need to win 4 of their last 5 games including tonight. Quite doable given their run home: Raiders (away), Tigers (away), Souths (home), Bulldogs (away), Sharks (home).

 

[Anonymous person]

Well there is still just a 1/16 chance of winning the minor premiership and Bennett has got it twice in two years(as if they won't get it). He took a team who previously was always around the middle end on the ladder to the best week-to-week team in the competition.

well melbourne couldnt get it this year, so 1 in 15. the cowboys are deadset useless, 1/14. same with the sharks, 1/13. i could go on and on, but the reality is that theres really only 5-6 teams that would really push the minor premiership, and this year especially, none of them are really going too crash hot.

finishing high on the ladder has never been a bennett coached teams problem. turning that position into a premiership has been - as evidenced by St George last year.

We've discussed this before. What playing roster?? Their roster coming into the 2009 season was their worst roster in years. Guys like Morris, Weyman, Scott, Nighingale, Soward, Costigan, Creagh - They were nothing compared to the players they were in 2008. Guys like Soward and Nighingale werew boarderlining reserve grade. [icon_lol1.

correct, we have - and nothings changed since then, and youre still wrong.

the St George team that Wayne Bennett inherited had more rep players and stars than pretty much every other team apart from Melbourne - and melbourne were the ones who won the premiership, not st george.

Wendell Sailor - 3 premierships, test matches out the wahzoo, plenty of origins
Jeremy Smith - 2 grand finals, 1 premiership, new zealand world cup winning team
Darius Boyd - 1 premiership, state of origin, test matches
Neville Costigan - state of origin
Luke Priddis - 2 premierships, test matches, state of origin, clive churchill medal winner
Matt Cooper - state of origin, test matches

then of course there is Jamie Soward, who just exploded out of the blocks with little to no help AT ALL from Bennett, and the emergence of the speedster Morris - speed that you just cant coach. they were both always going to be stars with or without bennett as the coach.

then theres ben creagh, who was selected to play for Australia in 2005, then again in the 2008 world cup - before bennett.

weyman, well in his 6 years prior to bennett he averaged 8 matches a year. in 2009 he got to play 50% of the number of matches that hed played in his first 6 years. gee, could that have had something to do with him coming good?

and neville costigan........lol. remember him when he was under bennetts coaching at the broncos? remember how we got rid of him because of all his problems? he came good at CANBERRA, not the dragons.

forgot ben hornby again - he played for NSW in 2004, 2006, and 2008. he also played for Australia in 2006. so another representative player that bennett inherited.

 

[Coxy]

But that's the case any year. There's always only 4-6 teams that are potentially good enough to finish top of the ladder, and there's always 2-3 teams that are utterly useless. This year's only unique in that there's a very capable team that is ineligible to earn points, so they're very much an x-factor on the competition.

The fact is, since 2000, Bennett teams have been top of the ladder at some stage (more than 1 week) in 2000 (r4-26), 2001 (r2, r6-7, r14-15), 2002 (r7-10), 2003 (r10-11, r14-17), 2004 (r6-7), 2005 (r9-24), 2006 (r12-13), 2008 (r1-5), 2009 (r12-24, 26) and 2010 (r5-22).

So every year in the past 11 seasons except 2007. That's utterly remarkable! It shows that he prepares a team good enough to win more often than not, very tough to beat.

Yes, his teams are also characterised by often falling short when it "counts", in the finals, but you can't deny he knows how to coach teams to be consistent, winning football teams.

The difference between himself and Bellamy is that Bellamy has been able to develop that consistency week in, week out AND have the X factor to win the premiership as well. Although, if Bennett was able to spend up to $1.3 million per year more than the rest of the competition I'm sure he'd do pretty well too ;-)

 

[Coxy]

BTW, it's remarkable that a thread giving credit to Ivan Henjak has turned into another argument about Wayne Bennett.

 

[Anonymous person]

theyre both coaches,henjak took over from bennett, so our only yard-stick for measuring henjaks success with the broncos is wayne bennett.

seems pretty on topic to me.

and again - id like to point out that it was not me that even brought up bennett or started the current talking point. i know ill get the blame for it though, as scotty/rocky/jeb/ning always like to do.

 

[Coxy]

To a degree. But the fact we're now examining Bennett's performances in the past for the Broncos, now with the Dragons, and the Dragons pre-Bennett...seems a whole lot of attention on Bennett and bugger all on Ivan!

Fact is I think Ivan would be the first to say he's got a loooooong way to go to be even mentioned in the same breath as Bennett. He would love to be able to have the consistency Bennett's teams have had during the premiership. He'd love to have a season next year without a massive slump like Henjak's teams have both had in 2009 and 2010.

But as others have said, Henjak's efforts on 2 occasions to get the team to not just recover from a slump but thrive after it is extremely promising. His use of the youngsters and faith in their abilities has paid off, despite looking decidedly dodgy at various times both seasons.

Let's see what this young team can do with the rest of this season...see if they can consolidate their form and even push for a top 4 spot (They're only 2 points outside...win their last 4 and the top 4 is almost certain). Or will they continue with the relatively WLWLWL pattern they've had the last couple of months and just scrape though, or potentially even miss out?

Next 4 weeks are huge for Ivan and the Broncos.

 

[Anonymous person]

Thanks AP. In a nutshell, you've basically admitted the following: "The Dragons simply just all of a sudden became good which had nothing to do with Wayne Bennett's coaching."

That's exactly what you're saying right? Going by your long post, you've given reasons why every player has excelled and apparantly it had nothing to do with Bennett.

I'll leave you with that. I'm not going to debate anymore because clearly you're doing a good enough job LOLZING yourself. Clearly you do not know what coaching is about and the effects different sort of coaching can have on an individual.

:roll:

typical rock. i showed you that the basis for the dragons' success was already in place for bennetts first year. i showed you that they had like 8 representative/grand final winning players already, when you have said that they only had 1 or 2. the only person that cant see what im getting at is you. oh and probably jeb/ning/draggx.

 

[Jeba]

Wendell Sailor and Luke Priddis? Origin standard? Are you serious?

Sure maybe like 7 years ago but not in 2009!!!

 

[Anonymous person]

Wendell Sailor and Luke Priddis? Origin standard? Are you serious?

Sure maybe like 7 years ago but not in 2009!!!

well Mal Meninga certainly thought so last year: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sp ... 5700034842

"IT has been eight years since Wendell Sailor pulled on the Maroons jumper but Queensland coach Mal Meninga has confirmed the big St George Illawarra winger is on the cusp of a stunning recall to State of Origin football."

and Luke Priddis barely got a go in origin when he played for Brisbane and was hands down the best hooker in the game - hes just one of those players that they just wont choose, like soward. you dont just lose the talent that a player like Priddis has. hes a dual premiership winning player, winning man of the match honours for one of those grand finals, and is still one of the best hookers around.

but hey, you most likely dont rate him because your best buddy Wayne didnt want him at the broncos, so you didnt want him there either.

 

[Anonymous person]

yeah 8 rep players, 4 of who have won grand finals, 2 of who have 2 premierships each, in one team is 'average'. rightyo.

 

[Bucking Beads]

BTW, it's remarkable that a thread giving credit to Ivan Henjak has turned into another argument about Wayne Bennett.

It is a disgrace. [icon_thumbs_do

 

[fenomeno]

Ty Williams has played origin too so what's your point? You can't just try and backup your argument that they were a star studded team simply by going off their origin and premiership records. LOLZ.

Casey McGuire anyone? lol. AP tries so hard.

 

[GCBRONCO]

Even Stuart Kelly played for Queensland and we all know AP rates him [icon_lol1.

 

[Anonymous person]

they also had 5 players that had represented their country. did stu kelly or ty williams play for Australia/NZ?

look, the fact that you guys are trying to find ways to downplay having 8 representative players shows just how deluded you are. 8. thats almost as many as the star-studded broncos teams of old had!

 

[schmix]

Locked.

May be unlocked pending further admin discussion.

 

[schmix]

Again folks, one chance to get back on track.

Please note:

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I would say about 95% of the members here are sick of reading the same arguments over and over again. The admins understand that conversations can wander off topic and then find their own way back again, but there are certain topics that have been done to death. Forty times over.

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