Jack Reed

[Allo]

and all this talk about is he worth $250k and is he a good buy at that price - well if he performs like he did last year then we are wasting our money - if we spend $100k or 400K on a player who is not performing up what is expected of him - and yes there are others in the team in this boat as well - then we are wasting our money - we need a big centre who can run like the clappers - put the fear of god into the opposition and score trys on a consistent basis - not from just up and unders or the miracle try that was shown on here - he only has done that once remember - where do you find that kid - we need to seriously go searching - that is what Andrew GEE gets paid big bucks to do not me

I'd like to know who you think are better centres. Sure Fergo when he plays, Jennings (had a decent season with a great team, hard to be a standout when 90% of the team were), Hodgo obviously, Matai possibly, Lyon and Idris when he's firing. But when there are players like SKD, Blake Ayshford, Chris Lawrence, Steve Michaels etc running around as first or second choice centres, I think we could do a lot worse than Jack.

There are a heap of other centres in the game that could be arguably better, but it's either too early in their career to judge how good they'll actually be, or the team around them doesn't let them show their potential. As mentioned Jack's the sort of player every team needs at least one of. Sure his attack doesn't stack up against the top centres, but his defence certainly makes up for it.
Also he contributes to a lot more tries than he's given credit for. Grubbers for him or his wingers, the draw-and-pass/offloads, the ever-so-slight tap back for Oates in the Dogs game to name a few. And yeah sometimes he's just there to catch and pass with quick hands to his outside, but it still needs doing and he rarely lets us down. Hopefully with improved halves and attack plans he can get some good holes to run into similar to what Oates did late last year. Also he busts his guts all season and I'm pretty sure he was injured for most of it (shoulder I think) so if he stays injury-free and Corvo can get his speed up, then he'll attack a lot better.
For what he brings on a wage that's only about 2.5x/3x more than the base (and what will be the base), its a pretty nice situation. Especially when you see the ridiculous money some people are on (TRex - $600k, Pritchard - $550k, Beau Scott - $500k, Shillington - $500k. Not centres, but definitely not better players either)

Not sure why you have such a vendetta. You don't rate him and that's fine, but you're sure going to a lot of effort to say so

 

[Porthoz]

Should I take offence that I was the only one who didn't get a reply back, or was my post to hard to answer? :thefinger:

 

[broncos4life]

I'd like to know who you think are better centres. Sure Fergo when he plays, Jennings (had a decent season with a great team, hard to be a standout when 90% of the team were), Hodgo obviously, Matai possibly, Lyon and Idris when he's firing. But when there are players like SKD, Blake Ayshford, Chris Lawrence, Steve Michaels etc running around as first or second choice centres, I think we could do a lot worse than Jack.

There are a heap of other centres in the game that could be arguably better, but it's either too early in their career to judge how good they'll actually be, or the team around them doesn't let them show their potential. As mentioned Jack's the sort of player every team needs at least one of. Sure his attack doesn't stack up against the top centres, but his defence certainly makes up for it.
Also he contributes to a lot more tries than he's given credit for. Grubbers for him or his wingers, the draw-and-pass/offloads, the ever-so-slight tap back for Oates in the Dogs game to name a few. And yeah sometimes he's just there to catch and pass with quick hands to his outside, but it still needs doing and he rarely lets us down. Hopefully with improved halves and attack plans he can get some good holes to run into similar to what Oates did late last year. Also he busts his guts all season and I'm pretty sure he was injured for most of it (shoulder I think) so if he stays injury-free and Corvo can get his speed up, then he'll attack a lot better.
For what he brings on a wage that's only about 2.5x/3x more than the base (and what will be the base), its a pretty nice situation. Especially when you see the ridiculous money some people are on (TRex - $600k, Pritchard - $550k, Beau Scott - $500k, Shillington - $500k. Not centres, but definitely not better players either)

Not sure why you have such a vendetta. You don't rate him and that's fine, but you're sure going to a lot of effort to say so

Good luck on getting a reply on what centres he thinks are better. I've asked twice who he would have for the same money and all I got was ferguson, cos you know, he would love to play for 250k

Agree on all your points, I think reed is being grossly under rated, but hey fightingirish has got Pete and others to agree with him so that's all that matters

 

[broncos4life]

I have read all the comments of this afternoon and this evening and thanks Pete for agreeing with me and a few others but let me ask you this question - out of the 32 normal club centres which went around in the NRL in 2013 season where would you rate Jack Reed - Top 10 - middle 10 or bottom 12 and remember I started this thread by questioning his ability to tackle effectively - some seem to think he is wonderful a few seem to wonder - I said ealier that I would keep his stats on every game and report on here to see how we go and if he can turn his game around and be worthy of a top 10 centre by the end of the season then I will apologise on here for bagging him - cant be any fairer than that can I

So basically you will bag him out completely all year because he won't measure up on supercoach and big Pete agrees with you, and if by chance the key stats that you mark
him on place him in the 'top 10' you'll apologise for something no one will care about anymore? Yep, can't get fairer than that.

While I hate rating players and I think it is just a stupid exercise (as witnessed by rlw's stupid ratings every year, thaidays one of the top fifty players everyone, wow seems legit) I would say reed is easily 'middle 10'. Every team needs players like reed. As has been mentioned several times (which you don't seem to acknowledge, but it doesn't suit your agenda so I get that) reed is the mick
Devere type player. Under rated, not flashy but hard working and reliable.

Lastly, you keep going on about needing superstars in every position, well then you need to pay superstar money and there is this pesky little thing called the 'salary cap' that means you have to have 'middle 10' players. It's all well and good to want a team full if superstars, I mean I want Katy Perry and a house full of cash, but it doesn't matter how many threads I create, or how much 'big
Pete and others' agree with me it ain't gonna happen.

 

[Financeguy]

but let me ask you this question - out of the 32 normal club centres which went around in the NRL in 2013 season where would you rate Jack Reed - Top 10 - middle 10 or bottom 12

I've taken round 24 of the 2013 comp. As you say there are 32 centres playing, here are the players that i think Reed is better or at least as good as:

Lewis Brown
David Stagg
Bryson Goodwin
Dylan Walker
Tim Lafai
Chase Stanley
Charly Runciman
Bodene Thompson
Tim Samona
Brad Takairangi
Jamie Dowling
Dane Nielsen
Bill Tupou
Maurice Blair
Ryan Morgan
Vai Toutai
Ben Pomeroy
Jonathan Wright
Mitchell Aubusson


Thats 19 players that imo Reed is as good as or better, so puts Reed around the 13th centre in the game. Sure there were some injured players like Hodges and Idris but there are always injuries every week to every NRL club.

Glancing at the Round 1 2014 thread, people seemed pretty happy to have Reed as starting centre.

As reference the players i rated better than Reed are: Whare, Inu, Hurrell, Tate, Linnett, Gagai, Leilua, Croker, Lyon, Matai, Chambers, Jennings.

 

[broncos4life]

I've taken round 24 of the 2013 comp. As you say there are 32 centres playing, here are the players that i think Reed is better or at least as good as:

Lewis Brown
David Stagg
Bryson Goodwin
Dylan Walker
Tim Lafai
Chase Stanley
Charly Runciman
Bodene Thompson
Tim Samona
Brad Takairangi
Jamie Dowling
Dane Nielsen
Bill Tupou
Maurice Blair
Ryan Morgan
Vai Toutai
Ben Pomeroy
Jonathan Wright
Mitchell Aubusson


Thats 19 players that imo Reed is as good as or better, so puts Reed around the 13th centre in the game. Sure there were some injured players like Hodges and Idris but there are always injuries every week to every NRL club.

Glancing at the Round 1 2014 thread, people seemed pretty happy to have Reed as starting centre.

As reference the players i rated better than Reed are: Whare, Inu, Hurrell, Tate, Linnett, Gagai, Leilua, Croker, Lyon, Matai, Chambers, Jennings.

I think that's Pretty spot on. I wouldn't really change much. IMO I wouldn't personally have inu ahead of him just because of his inconsistency. Just to clarify that inu on his day can do things reed can only dream of but he is far to erratic and I personally prefer the reliability of reed. Linnett is another I wouldn't have ahead as he is a huge beneficiary of thurston. One example is in the preliminary final the way he muffed that try, reed wouldn't have IMO

To be fair on the other side I would probably have Simona and lafai ahead of reed but either way he is still coming in around 13th

To make a further point about reeds value for money, have a look at all the centres placed above him, I would love to see their response when offered reeds money, it would be a good laugh

 

[Porthoz]

Hurrell is a weapon in attack, but is also often a gaping hole in defense, same thing applies in a lesser degree to Inu, Gagai and Jennings. But since those players won't even attempt the tackle, their stats probably won't show the missed tackle count, and they will have much better supercoach ratings...

 

[Mr Fourex]

The problem I have with Reed isn't so much we signed him on 250K, it's the fact that we signed him until 2017.

He's a solid player and I have no problem with having him in the squad, but that's an awfully long commitment to a player who doesn't have much, if any improvement in him.

Pretty much bang on the money Pete.

He's a solid player, no more....no less and IMO that's all he'll ever be.

 

[uptheguts]

It all comes down to your expectations. I expect a centre for the supposedly elite Broncos to be a dangerous attacking player. Its a given he should also be able to defend. The term "good defensive centre" really irks me. I want a great attacking player and no less. I think he may be better on the wing. I put him in about the same class as Wallace. Not bad but certainly not great. In the centres as well as the halves we really need great.

 

[broncos4life]

It all comes down to your expectations. I expect a centre for the supposedly elite Broncos to be a dangerous attacking player. Its a given he should also be able to defend. The term "good defensive centre" really irks me. I want a great attacking player and no less. I think he may be better on the wing. I put him in about the same class as Wallace. Not bad but certainly not great. We need great.

Have you heard of the salary cap?

 

[GCBRONCO]

It does come back to expectations, realistic in nature and planning for the future, not expecting an overnight solution with no backup plan that leaves us severely depleted in experience and at the present we have to be careful about getting the balance across the board over the next few years right. We already have two of our big gun players commanding big bucks on the sideline, another looking set to leave, the last thing I'd be wanting to do is ditching one of our more experienced backs when we could see Hodges, Hoffman and Yow Yeh gone over the next few seasons, that would leave us in a real hole. Again it comes down to balance, I got no problems taking calculated risks and looking to the market when possible(but you don't also recruit for the sake of recruiting, we now have to go back to the mentality of going to the market to improve, not just to get by or for the sake of buying) but provide balance to that too, in Hodges absence for instance lets give Oates a real chance to impress for a potential position in the future. The next few years are going to be crucial for our longterm future, Reed for 3-4 years at a rather minimal provides stability.

As for comparing Wallace to Reed, I'd have to say it's a poor comparison, Wallace was on more money and delivered even less from an attacking perspective particularly from what you expect from an actual playmaker, defensively he was good but that's not what your looking from a playmaker, attacking wise he was slow and very rarely actually troubled the opposition and kicking was a mixed bag at best, on the other hand a centre who can setup his outside man and is good defensively provides more in his role then what you would regard as a similar player in the spine.

 

[broncos4life]

I have to say this is a really frustrating discussion as several times I and others have asked for a suggestion as to how to fix the problem that you and others perceive, yet the only answer we get is this mighty club needs superstars in every position, that's not an answer. The is a salary cap which prevents this, if that wasn't the case it would be simple, let's get the Australian test team.

Can you try and answer my question please?

 

[Financeguy]

The term "good defensive centre" really irks me. I want a great attacking player and no less.

Being able to stop a try is as good as being able to score one. Sure it might not make the YouTube highlight vids but it counts just as much on the scorecard.

 

[uptheguts]

Have you heard of the salary cap?

Yes . I know about the salary cap and I am completely bewildered where the Broncs have spent the money for the last few years. One minute we are going to sign GI then zip. Where did the GI money go? Manly also has to be under the cap. Look at their backline compared to ours. That's the kind of backline I would be happy with. I am just sick of mediocrity.

 

[broncos4life]

Yes . I know about the salary cap and I am completely bewildered where the Broncs have spent the money for the last few years. One minute we are going to sign GI then zip. Where did the GI money go? Manly also has to be under the cap. Look at their backline compared to ours. That's the kind of backline I would be happy with. I am just sick of mediocrity.

So you've missed the constant headlines about manly and there salary cap pressures? It's basically guaranteed that very soon they will have to lose one if not 2 if their stars. For crying out loud they only just got b Stewarts contract sorted under the cap just before this seasons kick off

 

[GCBRONCO]

Yes . I know about the salary cap and I am completely bewildered where the Broncs have spent the money for the last few years. One minute we are going to sign GI then zip. Where did the GI money go? Manly also has to be under the cap. Look at their backline compared to ours. That's the kind of backline I would be happy with. I am just sick of mediocrity.

The money you suggest from not signing Inglis would have gone to retaining players the club felt were key for the longterm future, the Broncos could have gone to the market but off hand not remembering who at the time was available its hard to say either way if it was the right or wrong idea. I'm not defending their handling of the GI situation, it was pissweak but its time to move on from that.

Manly have a great back 5, on paper so do we at fullstrength but Manly also don't have a Hodges who's lucky to stay on the field for any great length and a Yow Yeh who's battling to even get back on the field, when you get past the players commanding the big bucks you can't expect to have players of that same quality and experience playing for a lot less. Hodges isn't a longterm player now and Yow Yeh's future is in doubt, the option to go to the market will be available.

 

[Big Pete]

So let's summarise this thread.

Fight Irish - Doesn't rate Jack Reed. Doesn't think he offers enough with the ball and believes his defence is overrated. Since it's difficult to come up with specific examples, FI used stats which reflected his opinion. Certain posters agree to varying degrees.

Generally those opposed - Can't have a superstar in each position and it's not as if we can break the bank, especially when we have the likes of Barba, Hoffman, Hodges, Yow Yeh in the squad. They rate his defence and question the validity of the statistics.

My opinion - I tend to agree with the opposed on Reed as a player BUT don't think it's wise to have signed him until 2017, regardless of price.

All these opinions are valid, all entitled to disagree but let's not make it personal.

 

[broncos4life]

So let's summarise this thread.

Fight Irish - Doesn't rate Jack Reed. Doesn't think he offers enough with the ball and believes his defence is overrated. Since it's difficult to come up with specific examples, FI used stats which reflected his opinion. Certain posters agree to varying degrees.

Generally those opposed - Can't have a superstar in each position and it's not as if we can break the bank, especially when we have the likes of Barba, Hoffman, Hodges, Yow Yeh in the squad. They rate his defence and question the validity of the statistics.

My opinion - I tend to agree with the opposed on Reed as a player BUT don't think it's wise to have signed him until 2017, regardless of price.

All these opinions are valid, all entitled to disagree but let's not make it personal.

Has anyone made it personal though? I certainly haven't intended to