National Anthem dumped from State of Origin.

[roo-ted]

So other than cancelling the Anthem, whats the solution?
I understand why they don't want to sing it, and i don't blame them, but there has to be some sign of unity, otherwise division will continue, and nothing changes.
I also think that sins of the past should be left in the past, it should be acknowledged and never repeated of course, but holding onto hate and ideas that were considered normal hundreds of years ago is no way to mend relationships and bring people together.

I think they are going to have to either modify the current anthem or better yet imagine if in a show of unity everyone came together and we did a new more meaningful one, the second opinion is probably a long shot but it would be amazing to see.

Yeah I agree to a certain extent, it wasn’t that long ago that children were getting taken from their families, there’s still heaps of people that were the children at the time and a lot (not all) of the issues you see in the aboriginal community are because of the trauma and break down of the family unit. I don’t think I could ever recover from something like that. People are still really hurting from it and the government only acknowledges probably 40% of what actually went on.
The way I see things is a bit different from a lot of aboriginals, but I think we should focus on educating the next generation and pushing them to succeed so that more aboriginals can be in parliament and take the action that really need to be done. Without naming names a lot of aboriginal organisations set up to help indigenous people are a blatant band-Aid or a “there you go shut up now” tactic

 

[Midean]

I think they are going to have to either modify the current anthem or better yet imagine if in a show of unity everyone came together and we did a new more meaningful one, the second opinion is probably a long shot but it would be amazing to see.

Yeah I agree to a certain extent, it wasn’t that long ago that children were getting taken from their families, there’s still heaps of people that were the children at the time and a lot (not all) of the issues you see in the aboriginal community are because of the trauma and break down of the family unit. I don’t think I could ever recover from something like that. People are still really hurting from it and the government only acknowledges probably 40% of what actually went on.
The way I see things is a bit different from a lot of aboriginals, but I think we should focus on educating the next generation and pushing them to succeed so that more aboriginals can be in parliament and take the action that really need to be done. Without naming names a lot of aboriginal organisations set up to help indigenous people are a blatant band-Aid or a “there you go shut up now” tactic

Yea mate, well said, and agreed.

I do think a new Anthem would be a good way to go. Australia is far more multicultural than ever and a new unifying Anthem to be an example of that, would be a great way to bring everyone together.

 

[Nashy]

The Occasion? Really? Its been sung at every single Origin since its inception.

I know. And since I've been watching, I thought the anthem at a domestic competition was peak Aussie wank.

 

[Foordy]

I know. And since I've been watching, I thought the anthem at a domestic competition was peak Aussie wank.

I have to ask, what's the difference between Origin and a GF. because correct me if I'm wrong but your happy for the anthem to be played for GF's

 

[Nashy]

I have to ask, what's the difference between Origin and a GF. because correct me if I'm wrong but your happy for the anthem to be played for GF's

I will correct you on that. I can accept it when the Warriors play.

 

[Foordy]

I will correct you on that. I can accept it when the Warriors play.

fair enough then

 

[Foordy]

for me i'm ok with the Anthem being played for the GF or Origin ... because both of those i would class as a special event sporting fixture.

I believe that it is not uncommon for national anthems to be played at those events both in Australia and overseas

 

[Nashy]

for me i'm ok with the Anthem being played for the GF or Origin ... because both of those i would class as a special event sporting fixture.

I believe that it is not uncommon for national anthems to be played at those events both in Australia and overseas

I don't watch many other sports, is it common outside of the USA?

 

[Foordy]

I don't watch many other sports, is it common outside of the USA?

I believe they play it before the FA cup final in England

 

[Jedhead]

So other than cancelling the Anthem, whats the solution?
I understand why they don't want to sing it, and i don't blame them, but there has to be some sign of unity, otherwise division will continue, and nothing changes.
I also think that sins of the past should be left in the past, it should be acknowledged and never repeated of course, but holding onto hate and ideas that were considered normal hundreds of years ago is no way to mend relationships and bring people together.

By your reckoning that the past should be forgotten we should also ditch ANZAC day and forget about Gallipoli. We should also cancel Xmas coz that’s just about ideas that were first thought normal centuries ago.
In effect what you are asking is for one group of our society to forget atrocities that tried to wipe out their culture. In order for unity there has to be empathy, compassion and an understanding of what has been going on since Cook first came to these shores.

Genocide, in the form of massacres, poisoning, the stealing of land forcing families to starve, the Stolen Generation are no things to be forgotten as they allow for the continuation of atrocities like the Northern Territory Emergency Response to be launched. Which in actual fact was forced on the Indigenous population of the NT under the guise of lies and misreporting by the Howard govt. It was given the less sinister name of the ‘Intervention’ and the shocking institutional racism it perpetuates was continued by the Labor govt. when they took office and is still in effect as we speak.

White Australia has a Black history and the sooner we deal with it the sooner we can achieve peace and reconciliation with all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.

 

[Midean]

By your reckoning that the past should be forgotten we should also ditch ANZAC day and forget about Gallipoli. We should also cancel Xmas coz that’s just about ideas that were first thought normal centuries ago.
In effect what you are asking is for one group of our society to forget atrocities that tried to wipe out their culture. In order for unity there has to be empathy, compassion and an understanding of what has been going on since Cook first came to these shores.

Genocide, in the form of massacres, poisoning, the stealing of land forcing families to starve, the Stolen Generation are no things to be forgotten as they allow for the continuation of atrocities like the Northern Territory Emergency Response to be launched. Which in actual fact was forced on the Indigenous population of the NT under the guise of lies and misreporting by the Howard govt. It was given the less sinister name of the ‘Intervention’ and the shocking institutional racism it perpetuates was continued by the Labor govt. when they took office and is still in effect as we speak.

White Australia has a Black history and the sooner we deal with it the sooner we can achieve peace and reconciliation with all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.

At no fucking point did i say it should be forgotten, kindly don't swing shit like this to fit a narrative. I said the past should be acknowledged and never repeated.
I also never asked the aboriginal community to forget the atrocities that occurred. It is ridiculous posts like yours that twist the narrative into something it isn't, making the topic completely untouchable for discussion because people like you will spin it to a negative agenda.

Your post actually made me mad.

My heritage is french/welsh/maori. Should i hold onto hate for the English because of the atrocities they dealt out to my ancestors? Should i refuse to participate in the national anthem of Australia because of those past transgressions? If so, how does that promote unity? How does that help heal the wounds of the past?
Should we all hate Japanese people for the bombing of pearl harbor or the Germans for WW1 and 2?

I am tired of virtue signaling people speaking without thinking.
It is entirely possible to have a conversation about this without assuming the worst.

My post had nothing, i repeat NOTHING to do with forgetting atrocities the aboriginal people experienced at the hands of early settlers, it had nothing to do with not acknowledging what happened in the past. Those were YOUR words, not mine.

My post was about unifying people, learning from the past, and fixing the future.
At what point do we stop blaming the sins of our ancestors and focus on fixing the current situation?

WE CANNOT CHANGE THE PAST. We can however, learn from it, and change the future to be better.

 

[Jedhead]

At no fucking point did i say it should be forgotten, kindly don't swing shit like this to fit a narrative. I said the past should be acknowledged and never repeated.
I also never asked the aboriginal community to forget the atrocities that occurred. It is ridiculous posts like yours that twist the narrative into something it isn't, making the topic completely untouchable for discussion because people like you will spin it to a racist agenda.

Your post actually made me mad.

My heritage is french/welsh/maori. Should i hold onto hate for the English because of the atrocities they dealt out to my ancestors? Should i refuse to participate in the national anthem of Australia because of those past transgressions? If so, how does that promote unity? How does that help heal the wounds of the past?
Should we all hate Japanese people for the bombing of pearl harbor or the Germans for WW1 and 2?

I am tired of virtue signaling people speaking without thinking.
It is entirely possible to have a conversation about this without assuming the worst.

My post had nothing, i repeat NOTHING to do with forgetting atrocities the aboriginal people experienced at the hands of early settlers, it had nothing to do with not acknowledging what happened in the past. Those were YOUR words, not mine.

My post was about unifying people, learning from the past, and fixing the future.
At what point do we stop blaming the sins of our ancestors and focus on fixing the current situation?

WE CANNOT CHANGE THE PAST. We can however, learn from it, and change the future to be better.

"I also think that sins of the past should be left in the past" so what does this mean? That reads to me that the sins of the past should should be left there i.e. forgotten.

And before I continue a civil debate with you my friend I'd ask you tone down the butt hurt rhetoric. I never tried to 'swing shit' to change the narrative I offered an alternative point of view to your argument. If that leaves you hurt, mad and dis-orientated I suggest you take a few minutes to calm down and go back and re-read what I wrote without the obvious rage clouding your thoughts.

Another point to help you on your journey " I am tired of virtue signaling people speaking without thinking.
It is entirely possible to have a conversation about this without assuming the worst." Reflect on this and then re-read my post.

Enjoy your day.

 

[roo-ted]

At no fucking point did i say it should be forgotten, kindly don't swing shit like this to fit a narrative. I said the past should be acknowledged and never repeated.
I also never asked the aboriginal community to forget the atrocities that occurred. It is ridiculous posts like yours that twist the narrative into something it isn't, making the topic completely untouchable for discussion because people like you will spin it to a negative agenda.

Your post actually made me mad.

My heritage is french/welsh/maori. Should i hold onto hate for the English because of the atrocities they dealt out to my ancestors? Should i refuse to participate in the national anthem of Australia because of those past transgressions? If so, how does that promote unity? How does that help heal the wounds of the past?
Should we all hate Japanese people for the bombing of pearl harbor or the Germans for WW1 and 2?

I am tired of virtue signaling people speaking without thinking.
It is entirely possible to have a conversation about this without assuming the worst.

My post had nothing, i repeat NOTHING to do with forgetting atrocities the aboriginal people experienced at the hands of early settlers, it had nothing to do with not acknowledging what happened in the past. Those were YOUR words, not mine.

My post was about unifying people, learning from the past, and fixing the future.
At what point do we stop blaming the sins of our ancestors and focus on fixing the current situation?

WE CANNOT CHANGE THE PAST. We can however, learn from it, and change the future to be better.

You are right there is a time where we will have to move on from the past but it’s things like the anthem remind some people of the past.
I honestly don’t know why something hasn’t been done about it already. I tend to this it’s because people don’t know the full extent of what really happened and it hasn’t been properly address mainly because it’s so horrific that it’s almost unspeakable.

I don’t think you are saying get over it and move on. But the anthem as it stands definitely isn’t the centrepiece where we can come together and show unity. We can’t jump to the last part of moving on and showing unity without addressing the outstanding issues at hand and because of lazy politics there is still a lot to be addressed

 

[Midean]

"I also think that sins of the past should be left in the past" so what does this mean? That reads to me that the sins of the past should should be left there i.e. forgotten.

And before I continue a civil debate with you my friend I'd ask you tone down the butt hurt rhetoric. I never tried to 'swing shit' to change the narrative I offered an alternative point of view to your argument. If that leaves you hurt, mad and dis-orientated I suggest you take a few minutes to calm down and go back and re-read what I wrote without the obvious rage clouding your thoughts.

Another point to help you on your journey " I am tired of virtue signaling people speaking without thinking.
It is entirely possible to have a conversation about this without assuming the worst." Reflect on this and then re-read my post.

Enjoy your day.

It means that the hate, and atrocities, and conflict should be left in the past.
Not propagated today.
Today, we can learn from the past, and use it as a tool to improve the future, to mend bridges, to build trust between cultures and build a sense of unity and community.

As far as being butt hurt, that tends to happen when people try to twist your words with bullshit.
In one sentence you tried to imply that i suggested we forget about what happened, alongside forgetting the Anzacs.
If you misunderstood my post, that's on you, but don't put words in my mouth.

 

[Midean]

You are right there is a time where we will have to move on from the past but it’s things like the anthem remind some people of the past.
I honestly don’t know why something hasn’t been done about it already. I tend to this it’s because people don’t know the full extent of what really happened and it hasn’t been properly address mainly because it’s so horrific that it’s almost unspeakable.

I don’t think you are saying get over it and move on. But the anthem as it stands definitely isn’t the centrepiece where we can come together and show unity. We can’t jump to the last part of moving on and showing unity without addressing the outstanding issues at hand and because of lazy politics there is still a lot to be addressed

I totally agree.
And moving on from the past does not have to be separated from acknowledging the past.
There has been a lot of agreement on here to changing the anthem to a more inclusive one, that pays homage to both Aboriginal and European Australian descendants.

 

[Jedhead]

It means that the hate, and atrocities, and conflict should be left in the past.
Not propagated today.
Today, we can learn from the past, and use it as a tool to improve the future, to mend bridges, to build trust between cultures and build a sense of unity and community.

As far as being butt hurt, that tends to happen when people try to twist your words with bullshit.
In one sentence you tried to imply that i suggested we forget about what happened, alongside forgetting the Anzacs.
If you misunderstood my post, that's on you, but don't put words in my mouth.

"but holding onto hate and ideas that were considered normal hundreds of years ago is no way to mend relationships and bring people together." As @roo-ted said above many Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are not "holding on to hate" they're holding on to the atrocities that have been visited on them since Cook arrived. These past transgressions cannot be forgotten, they need to be fully acknowledged and dealt with openly before Australia, as a nation can progress.

 

[Midean]

"but holding onto hate and ideas that were considered normal hundreds of years ago is no way to mend relationships and bring people together." As @roo-ted said above many Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are not "holding on to hate" they're holding on to the atrocities that have been visited on them since Cook arrived. These past transgressions cannot be forgotten, they need to be fully acknowledged and dealt with openly before Australia, as a nation can progress.

Have they not been acknowledged? Not a soul alive is suggesting we forget history like it never happened.
If i recall Kevin Rudd publicly apologized for what happened on behalf of all Australians.
If i recall The Aboriginal Land rights act was implemented to rightfully return lands of cultural importance back to the Aboriginal people.
The Aboriginal flag is flown wherever a Union Jack flag is flown, be it outside every hospital, police station and court house in the country.

There are more government programs in place to assist the aboriginal community than any other group of people in Australia.
We have indigenous rounds in NRL, and the AFL.

Is this not all acknowledgement? How much more needs to be done before we all fly under the same flag? How much more needs to be done before modern day Australians can all walk side by side without the past filtering into and breeding segregation in our communities?

So tell me, how do these past transgressions be fully acknowledged and dealt with openly so Australia as a nation can progress?
It seems to be thats what has been happening but still we have segregation as is evident by the recent attempt to cancel the anthem and subsequent backflip on that call.

 

[Jedhead]

Have they not been acknowledged? Not a soul alive is suggesting we forget history like it never happened. Really? What was John Howard and Keith Windschuttle's history wars all about then?
If i recall Kevin Rudd publicly apologized for what happened on behalf of all Australians.
If i recall The Aboriginal Land rights act was implemented to rightfully return lands of cultural importance back to the Aboriginal people. So, why are Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders still barred from many thousand of sacred sites up and down the country because they are now being mined for minerals by huge overseas corporations? Why are companies still allowed to blow up caves that were tens of thousands of years old and held enormous sacred value? Why are centuries old 'birthing trees' with significant cultural value to the Indigenous population being felled in Victoria this week to make way for an upgrade to a highway?
The Aboriginal flag is flown wherever a Union Jack flag is flown, be it outside every hospital, police station and court house in the country. The Union Jack flag? i thought that was the flag of the United Kingdom. the clue is in the union. Moreover, the Aboriginal flag is not flown wherever the Australian flag is flown. Look at the tip of parliament house in Canberra.

There are more government programs in place to assist the aboriginal community than any other group of people in Australia.
We have indigenous rounds in NRL, and the AFL. Perhaps ask yourself why such a diverse group of peoples who survived and flourished perfectly well for something like 60,000 years now need all of this assistance? Why is that?

Is this not all acknowledgement? How much more needs to be done before we all fly under the same flag? How much more needs to be done before modern day Australians can all walk side by side without the past filtering into and breeding segregation in our communities? Why do we all need to fly under the same flag? And who gets to decide what that flag will be?

So tell me, how do these past transgressions be fully acknowledged and dealt with openly so Australia as a nation can progress?
It seems to be thats what has been happening but still we have segregation as is evident by the recent attempt to cancel the anthem and subsequent backflip on that call. I'm not, as you said 'virtue signalling' I'm trying to discuss in a civil manner the past transgressions in an open forum. From your obvious hurt and rage we still have a long way to go my friend.