POST GAME PSC - Broncos vs Cowboys

Big Del said:
BS ! They are saying its NSWRL vs the Broncos over and again .
Referees and the judicary treat Broncos players differently and on it goes .

Sproj even said they change the rules to cheat on Mondays via Graeme Annerley .

Some say it is the entertainment industry so outcomes are pre manufactured .

The Cowboys vs Broncos live game thread was one conspiracy comment after another by certain posters . It gets tiresome for me to read that rubbish .
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Then don’t read it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion so if you don’t like it debate it or ignore it. Expecting people not to discuss something because you disagree with it and don’t like it is ridiculous.
 
Financeguy said:
Funnily enough i was at this game and the mostly pro Penrith crowd were giving it to the ref regularly for at least the first 60 mins of the game for the Panthers being held down in the tackle and the constant slowing down of the game. If you asked a Penrith fan they would have the exact opposite opinion of you for the ref performance. For every Bronco fan feeling like we are hard done by in a game you could find one from the opposition feeling the same way.

I too get a bit tired of the N(SW)RL complaining by certain posters in the live game threads as any unfavorable decisions (or in some case line ball) are whinged about but favorable decisions are quickly overlooked. Complaining about how the Cows try in the corner was awarded when we all know that it will be looked at anyway but nothing about Cobbo's try being awarded in a similar fashion is one example.

But, you are right, you need to expect some form of bias in the live game thread as emotions are generally at their highest.
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Just on this, I have noticed ref's seem to be giving benefit of the doubt to the attacker more and more these days. Or is that just me? In days gone past, those types have try's would have been sent upstairs for review immediately whereas now they just call it a try knowing it will be reviewed anyway.
 
Big Del said:

Occam's razor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Same thing different name . Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem, which translates as "Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity"


The Sorrows of Young Werther (1774, first English translation 1779): "[...] Mißverständnisse und Trägheit vielleicht mehr Irrungen in der Welt machen als List und Bosheit. Wenigstens sind die beiden letzteren gewiß seltener." ('[...]

misunderstandings and lethargy perhaps produce more wrong in the world than deceit and malice do. At least the latter two are certainly rarer.


There is very little deliberate wickedness in the world. The stupidity of our selfishness gives much the same results indeed, but in the ethical laboratory it shows a different nature.[14]
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I think the issue with these quotes will always be the fact that all interpretations of any given action will be subjective and relative to the time in which it is made. The path to hell may indeed be paved with good intentions, but the intentions themselves may have various focuses.

There is undoubtedly corruption and the potential for it in every governing body, and the ways in which this corruption can manifest are manifold.

In trying to make the NRL more entertaining the justification is that many will benefit from this, but also there will be individuals who benefit from this ppersonally. These individuals may think it justified, even after the result proves less rewarding for the many others.

In the majority of cases, many will be pointing out Broncos vs. X. But really, it will be established team vs "struggling/new team in valued area".

I'm happy to be proven wrong on the Dolphins, but if the team that ran out the past two games somehow manages to be successful this season, it will be a miracle or something fishy. A tell-tale sign will be the officiating.

Also, corruption within the NRL, and especially around betting is historically documented. The issue is proving it, and that comes at a cost to the taxpayers, only a portion of whom are NRL fans who bet and lost in those cases. Possibly too, those with enough motivation and money to push for enquiry.

Let us also not forget the political connections that exist in the NRL. The PM's XIII being one way to kiss the ring. ScoMo being so involved with property developers/-ment within the Sharks footy club is still fishy to me, particularly after his involvement as Sports minister and Treasurer, and his involvement in the Sports rorts affair.

I could go on, but to say that it is not a net result of corruption is like assigning lethargy, misunderstanding, stupidity and selfishness to the Catholic Church and its historical corruption. In this we can throw another idiom into the discussion: "A fish rots from the head down".

The issue here IMO ultimately is that the rule changes suck. The 6-again limits reflection on the infringement. Awarding a try only to go to the bunker who silently looks at it, then tells the ref they are reviewing it, then publicly review it, then award or deny it takes so long. Are the refs personally responsible? who knows? But could they be coached to identify Flegler as a potential serial infringer and JWH as simply aggressive? I think so, particularly with media influence and a dictatorial business structure, where the head of refs gives the instructions. FYI there is documented reports (See around 2:20) on there being factions within the refereeing community, those in with the Suttons and those not. Also, Bernard Sutton was accused of giving his brothers preferential treatment in 2020. Badger and Cecchin ousted, etc.

Now, let us look at foreign sporting bodies. FIFA was found to be corrupt in awarding Qatar the world cup. Man city is still being investigated for its corruption years later, but will they be booted from the EPL? Yes, corruption does exist in other sporting bodies, and it is most likely that the money involved is far greater too, which means a vested interest in preventing it from being found.

In the case of the Broncos, meh, they need to be better regardless, but 2020 killed them mentally. Going 2-0 before corona only to then get a changed draw and being the guinea pigs on the new rules and copping them VERY hard absolutely had an impact IMO. Go back and watch those games (if you can stomach it) and see when the calls are made (early to drain energy), where the calls are made (often relieving pressure for the opposition, and increase pressure for Broncos defending), and the reactions from the players (confusion, anger, disbelief and finally acceptance). The 6-again bell became a Pavlovian response for them. It rings and they slump.

Now, the Dolphins coming into the comp. Well, that was obviously pure business when you look at how the decision-making went. Two Brisbane teams should equal more money than a Perth team or Adelaide team, even though the rhetoric is always about expansion. The truth is that Melbourne shows that expansion into non-NRL territories requires upkeep, and despite Melbourne's (corrupted) success, it is still not a popular club in its location. Also, why did Cam Smith's wife get a ring from the NRL? So random.

Also random is the success of the Sharks in the one year between years in which they were found cheating. I dunno, just seems like a history of questionable activity. Could it be that there is something to do with absolute power corrupting absolutely? Could it be that betting companies have in the last 20 years become pure business enterprises and not the organised crime syndicates of yesteryear? Could the desire for one man to show a successful stint at the helm of a sporting institution lead him to make sound business decisions and not influence others to retain their jobs or income or appearances and avoid the use of the invested media companies to market decisions in a positive light? I dunno.

I just want the NRL of the 2000s back. I'd settle for the 2010s. But here I am stuck in 2023 with the stupid 6-again rule and a new rule or 2 every season with a tweak here and a tweak there and a Annersley justification each time.

Just mute the guys who annoy you, or skim their posts for something relevant or insightful. It's like the drunk who yells "been doing it all night" when an offside is called on the first set. It's funny, but it gets old and it changes nothing, but it's part of the sport, and you'd miss it if it went, I think.
 
Organix said:
I think the issue with these quotes will always be the fact that all interpretations of any given action will be subjective and relative to the time in which it is made. The path to hell may indeed be paved with good intentions, but the intentions themselves may have various focuses.

There is undoubtedly corruption and the potential for it in every governing body, and the ways in which this corruption can manifest are manifold.

In trying to make the NRL more entertaining the justification is that many will benefit from this, but also there will be individuals who benefit from this ppersonally. These individuals may think it justified, even after the result proves less rewarding for the many others.

In the majority of cases, many will be pointing out Broncos vs. X. But really, it will be established team vs "struggling/new team in valued area".

I'm happy to be proven wrong on the Dolphins, but if the team that ran out the past two games somehow manages to be successful this season, it will be a miracle or something fishy. A tell-tale sign will be the officiating.

Also, corruption within the NRL, and especially around betting is historically documented. The issue is proving it, and that comes at a cost to the taxpayers, only a portion of whom are NRL fans who bet and lost in those cases. Possibly too, those with enough motivation and money to push for enquiry.

Let us also not forget the political connections that exist in the NRL. The PM's XIII being one way to kiss the ring. ScoMo being so involved with property developers/-ment within the Sharks footy club is still fishy to me, particularly after his involvement as Sports minister and Treasurer, and his involvement in the Sports rorts affair.

I could go on, but to say that it is not a net result of corruption is like assigning lethargy, misunderstanding, stupidity and selfishness to the Catholic Church and its historical corruption. In this we can throw another idiom into the discussion: "A fish rots from the head down".

The issue here IMO ultimately is that the rule changes suck. The 6-again limits reflection on the infringement. Awarding a try only to go to the bunker who silently looks at it, then tells the ref they are reviewing it, then publicly review it, then award or deny it takes so long. Are the refs personally responsible? who knows? But could they be coached to identify Flegler as a potential serial infringer and JWH as simply aggressive? I think so, particularly with media influence and a dictatorial business structure, where the head of refs gives the instructions. FYI there is documented reports (See around 2:20) on there being factions within the refereeing community, those in with the Suttons and those not. Also, Bernard Sutton was accused of giving his brothers preferential treatment in 2020. Badger and Cecchin ousted, etc.

Now, let us look at foreign sporting bodies. FIFA was found to be corrupt in awarding Qatar the world cup. Man city is still being investigated for its corruption years later, but will they be booted from the EPL? Yes, corruption does exist in other sporting bodies, and it is most likely that the money involved is far greater too, which means a vested interest in preventing it from being found.

In the case of the Broncos, meh, they need to be better regardless, but 2020 killed them mentally. Going 2-0 before corona only to then get a changed draw and being the guinea pigs on the new rules and copping them VERY hard absolutely had an impact IMO. Go back and watch those games (if you can stomach it) and see when the calls are made (early to drain energy), where the calls are made (often relieving pressure for the opposition, and increase pressure for Broncos defending), and the reactions from the players (confusion, anger, disbelief and finally acceptance). The 6-again bell became a Pavlovian response for them. It rings and they slump.

Now, the Dolphins coming into the comp. Well, that was obviously pure business when you look at how the decision-making went. Two Brisbane teams should equal more money than a Perth team or Adelaide team, even though the rhetoric is always about expansion. The truth is that Melbourne shows that expansion into non-NRL territories requires upkeep, and despite Melbourne's (corrupted) success, it is still not a popular club in its location. Also, why did Cam Smith's wife get a ring from the NRL? So random.

Also random is the success of the Sharks in the one year between years in which they were found cheating. I dunno, just seems like a history of questionable activity. Could it be that there is something to do with absolute power corrupting absolutely? Could it be that betting companies have in the last 20 years become pure business enterprises and not the organised crime syndicates of yesteryear? Could the desire for one man to show a successful stint at the helm of a sporting institution lead him to make sound business decisions and not influence others to retain their jobs or income or appearances and avoid the use of the invested media companies to market decisions in a positive light? I dunno.

I just want the NRL of the 2000s back. I'd settle for the 2010s. But here I am stuck in 2023 with the stupid 6-again rule and a new rule or 2 every season with a tweak here and a tweak there and a Annersley justification each time.

Just mute the guys who annoy you, or skim their posts for something relevant or insightful. It's like the drunk who yells "been doing it all night" when an offside is called on the first set. It's funny, but it gets old and it changes nothing, but it's part of the sport, and you'd miss it if it went, I think.
Click to expand...


TLDR
 
Big Del said:
TLDR
Click to expand...
TLDR: Let the boys play.

1677042880074
 
HarryAllan7 said:
It's not a criminal conspiracy, but there is very obviously subtle biases and factors which impact how the game is refereed. Such a huge portion of the officiating comes down to discretion and as you point out, referees are human... If a team has a reputation as being particularly slow to get off the ruck and in the referees meeting their point of emphasis for the week is cleaning and speeding up the ruck, then due to normal human factors, the referee is more likely to see / notice / penalise the team which in their mind has the reputation for being lacking in this particular area. That's one very simple example of a team being treated differently from another due to normal human factors and bias, and its an incontrovertible part of officiating in ANY sport.

Deflecting comments about the poor and inconsistent standard of refereeing in the NRL (and it is very clearly BOTH) by framing it as a 'criminal conspiracy' is silly and unnecessary.
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It's a criminal act to rig or bias a game. No ifs or buts.

In my opinion, refereeing is a tough job under intense scrutiny. NRL referees are pretty damn good, but are prone to make errors. Some more than others. Just like players. Bagging them for their errors is understandable. But accusing them of bias is something else, and frankly, it's beyond the pale.

Apart from being a bad sport, it's offensive to them as professionals. Try to have some respect, and not let your own biases cloud your judgement.

I know I'm the only person who sticks up for them in here, and I'd make life easier for myself to go along with the herd, but I won't stoop to it.

I've only refereed a few sporting games myself (though tons of touch judging) - and I was pretty shit at it - but even from the small amount of experience I've had I can tell you being unbiased is more important to refs than getting every decision right.
 
McHunt said:
It's a criminal act to rig or bias a game. No ifs or buts.

In my opinion, refereeing is a tough job under intense scrutiny. NRL referees are pretty damn good, but are prone to make errors. Some more than others. Just like players. Bagging them for their errors is understandable. But accusing them of bias is something else, and frankly, it's beyond the pale.

Apart from being a bad sport, it's offensive to them as professionals. Try to have some respect, and not let your own biases cloud your judgement.

I know I'm the only person who sticks up for them in here, and I'd make life easier for myself to go along with the herd, but I won't stoop to it.

I've only refereed a few sporting games myself (though tons of touch judging) - and I was pretty shit at it - but even from the small amount of experience I've had I can tell you being unbiased is more important to refs than getting every decision right.
Click to expand...
Below is a very candid conversation with an NBA ref who got done for betting on games.

I don’t feel anything he is saying is beyond the realms of possibility for NRL referring. Everyone who has an interest in this topic should give it a watch. Very interesting.

 
theshed said:
Below is a very candid conversation with an NBA ref who got done for betting on games.

I don’t feel anything he is saying is beyond the realms of possibility for NRL referring. Everyone who has an interest in this topic should give it a watch. Very interesting.

Click to expand...

I'm not arguing the NRL is corruption free, but the notion referees rig games openly on live TV, and officials favour clubs in an obvious way, is farcical to put it mildly. Here is the criminal statute in QLD:

View - Queensland Legislation - Queensland Government

www.legislation.qld.gov.au www.legislation.qld.gov.au

Further reading:

Competition Manipulation & Sports Wagering

Sport Integrity Australia leads the Australian Government’s response to competition manipulation and sports wagering issues, that affect Australian sport.
www.sportintegrity.gov.au www.sportintegrity.gov.au
 
McHunt said:
I'm not arguing the NRL is corruption free, but the notion referees rig games openly on live TV, and officials favour clubs in an obvious way, is farcical to put it mildly. Here is the criminal statute in QLD:

View - Queensland Legislation - Queensland Government

www.legislation.qld.gov.au www.legislation.qld.gov.au

Further reading:

Competition Manipulation & Sports Wagering

Sport Integrity Australia leads the Australian Government’s response to competition manipulation and sports wagering issues, that affect Australian sport.
www.sportintegrity.gov.au www.sportintegrity.gov.au
Click to expand...
it’s definitely not farcical. It may be wrong or overstated but it is far from farcical.

A law existing against something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I guess there’s never been sexual assault, or murder, or theft. No one has embezzled since they made laws against it. No radio station has received pay for plays either.
 
McHunt said:
It's a criminal act to rig or bias a game. No ifs or buts.

In my opinion, refereeing is a tough job under intense scrutiny. NRL referees are pretty damn good, but are prone to make errors. Some more than others. Just like players. Bagging them for their errors is understandable. But accusing them of bias is something else, and frankly, it's beyond the pale.

Apart from being a bad sport, it's offensive to them as professionals. Try to have some respect, and not let your own biases cloud your judgement.

I know I'm the only person who sticks up for them in here, and I'd make life easier for myself to go along with the herd, but I won't stoop to it.

I've only refereed a few sporting games myself (though tons of touch judging) - and I was pretty shit at it - but even from the small amount of experience I've had I can tell you being unbiased is more important to refs than getting every decision right.
Click to expand...

Oh My God Reaction GIF by Married At First Sight
 
theshed said:
it’s definitely not farcical. It may be wrong or overstated but it is far from farcical.

A law existing against something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I guess there’s never been sexual assault, or murder, or theft. No one has embezzled since they made laws against it. No radio station has received pay for plays either.
Click to expand...
Well yes it is farcical. There's an assumption here the referees are crooked and rig games against the Broncos. If you challenge that completely obnoxious and idiotic sentiment, you're gaslit for not getting it.

If you really believe a referee is getting away with a crime, despite being forensically examined by slow motion replays, an oversight committee and not least of all thousands of fans, then collate the evidence and report them to the police.
 
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