POST GAME Round 3 - Broncos vs Dragons

[Wolfie]

You've got to back yourself in that position, once he got past Host he had to stretch out. I think he knew he stuffed up as well, which is why he rushed the play the ball.

I agree, but I think he just tucked the ball in and thought his momentum would carry him over the line and it didn't. It's not as easy to make the decision in the heat of the moment. We get to see what he could have done through replays and then using hindsight work out what he should have done.

 

[Porthoz]

That's a losers mentality.

You want to win the game, so you take the best shot when it's on offer. If the Broncos played out their set, they're on the Dragons goal-line with the entire Dragons defence barrelling down on the kicker. 30m right in-front off a quick play the ball is the best shot you're going to get.

I'm not blaming the loss on those players, just pointing out a key moment in that set and who was responsible.

LOL, that bold part is hilarious given the sequence of events.

It wasn't the best shot, it wasn't the best time, and the rest is pure speculation. Also, at the time of the shot, Isaako had several Dragons players barrelling down on the the kicker, to use your own terms.
Taking appropriate steps to ensure the kicker has time to kick a field goal from good position is elementary RL. The Dragons certainly knew how to do that...

Embellishing the scapegoating is not going to make it any different from what it is.

 

[I bleed Maroon]

Too high risk, especially in the context of the game last night.

Apparently not considering we lost anyway.

 

[Porthoz]

5. I'm terrible at maths.

Hope that explains it.

That would've done it... it's concerning the amount of staff suffering from that ill. :p

 

[McHunt]

The pass didn't help matters, but it didn't cause Isaako to miss the shot. Isaako still had more than enough time to pilot the kick through, it just missed.

The reason McCullough's pass was so poor is because of the angle he came in. Paul Vaughan blocked his path to the football, so he had to go around him and it affected his pass. I'm not excusing McCullough, at that level, you still have to throw something better than a Granville pass but it wasn't a standard pass.

It was a piece of piss and absolutely shit execution. This is the level of skill I would expect from a senior specialist dummy half on his money:

 

[rnabokov]

Too high risk, especially in the context of the game last night.

Can't see how it's any more high risk than the outcome of a messed up FG attempt. Grubber behind the line and the momentum is with you, and if you don't score a try then either a goal line drop out or they bring it out from their line. Makes sense to me in terms of an option

 

[Huge]

Disagree, that would just make the kickers job more difficult as the markers and goal-line defence would have a much easier time getting off their position and getting to the kicker.

When the scores are tied and you're looking to win the game, clock management is the least of your concerns. This isn't the NFL, although Cameron Smith does make me wonder.

No, that's completely wrong. What you invariably find when the defence is attempting to rush the kicker is one two or even three players offside by a metre or two. A slow ptb on the 10 metre line means every defence player must be standing still with one foot on the line making it easy for the ref to ping a player or call them offside as the ref did the other night with McCullough. If your kicker has more time to position himself perfectly and this maneuver is rehearsed in just this way the kicker can be guaranteed ample time to make his kick. The kicker stands on the 20 metre line meaning the defence can not reach him in time. A quick play the ball never has them retreating and in 99% of cases they are already in motion by the time the ball touches the dummy halfs hands. It has the extra bonus of ensuring the markers are standing in line, they simply cannot be moving and this method would ensure they are standing stock still.

 

[rnabokov]

Actually, whatever about that FG. What I am more concerned about is the dreadful defensive structures that gifted the Dragons ALL of their tries. It wasn't good football, it was appalling defence. In fact, Roberts's positioning for the Dragons 2nd try was unbelievably poor. He looked like he was wandering about aimlessly miles away from his position leaving Isaako with 1 on 2.

For mine, Seibs needs to look at Jimmy's defence very carefully.

We defend like that next week and the Rorters will put 50 on us.

 

[_wwong]

I thought everything about the field goal was bad, slow play the ball and slow pass...don't take it, try for a quick play the ball the next tackle IMO.

In hindsight should have taken 2 more tackles and then let Milford take the shot from closer range. He nailed one last week even though there was no pressure on him

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

Too high risk, especially in the context of the game last night.

I would have thought it is lower risk. Unless it's a terrible kick (I'd back milfs kicking game these days for it not to be) worst case scenario is they start a 6 tackle set a metre or 2 out from their line, otherwise its a try or a line drop out.

 

[Jedhead]

One thing that keeps coming back to me is the try scored in Isaako's corner. I can't remember which one, but it was when the ball went away from this wing then all of a sudden it switched back and our boys were like ' hang on we were not expecting this...is this allowed?' It was so un-Bronco like. I looked at my wife and she just shrugged and said 'that will give the coach nightmares'. It's still haunting me how we gave up that whole wing as if it never existed.

 

[Big Pete]

I agree, but I think he just tucked the ball in and thought his momentum would carry him over the line and it didn't. It's not as easy to make the decision in the heat of the moment. We get to see what he could have done through replays and then using hindsight work out what he should have done.

I understand giving players the benefit of the doubt when they try something and it doesn't come off because of the difficulty of the play. However, this wasn't too much to ask and Glenn bottled it.

It stood out to me since Ben Hunt's one of the worst defenders in the NRL and I would have thought the Broncos would have fought fire with fire. I thought the Broncos would really target that left edge and they rarely went that way. This was one of the few instances they did and they nearly scored a soft try off the back of it.

LOL, that bold part is hilarious given the sequence of events.

It wasn't the best shot, it wasn't the best time, and the rest is pure speculation. Also, at the time of the shot, Isaako had several Dragons players barrelling down on the the kicker, to use your own terms.
Taking appropriate steps to ensure the kicker has time to kick a field goal from good position is elementary RL. The Dragons certainly knew how to do that...

Embellishing the scapegoating is not going to make it any different from what it is.

Isaako still had plenty of time and space to get the kick in. Yes, Host and Lafai formed a chase, but they still couldn't get to Jamayne in time, Isaako was just off target.

The Dragons were only in position once the entire set and it just so happened to be the last play. Brisbane were in the exact same position as the Dragons from the second tackle, so they would have to burn through three more tackles before taking the shot. The longer the teams leaves it, the more the pressure builds up, especially when the defence doesn't have to constantly retreat 10m. Which is to say, the Dragons-Broncos comparison isn't 1:1.

Apparently not considering we lost anyway.

By that logic, Brisbane could have tried anything that set and it would have been the right idea.

Sure, it couldn't be any worse but the field goal is the high percentage play.

Can't see how it's any more high risk than the outcome of a messed up FG attempt. Grubber behind the line and the momentum is with you, and if you don't score a try then either a goal line drop out or they bring it out from their line. Makes sense to me in terms of an option

Higher percentage of ricochets, higher percentage of conceding a penalty for an off-side chase, less likely to score points, more likely to concede a 7 tackle set.

It's easier to say in hindsight 'eh why not' but if it had have happened live, it would be scrutinised and rightfully so.

No, that's completely wrong. What you invariably find when the defence is attempting to rush the kicker is one two or even three players offside by a metre or two. A slow ptb on the 10 metre line means every defence player must be standing still with one foot on the line making it easy for the ref to ping a player or call them offside as the ref did the other night with McCullough. If your kicker has more time to position himself perfectly and this maneuver is rehearsed in just this way the kicker can be guaranteed ample time to make his kick. The kicker stands on the 20 metre line meaning the defence can not reach him in time. A quick play the ball never has them retreating and in 99% of cases they are already in motion by the time the ball touches the dummy halfs hands. It has the extra bonus of ensuring the markers are standing in line, they simply cannot be moving and this method would ensure they are standing stock still.

By the time the player playing the ball gets to his feet, dusts himself off, has a stretch, has a scratch and gives a dopey look to the referee, the defence will be on their marks. As soon as the ball is down on the ground, they're off and the dummy half has to ensure he gets the pass off as quickly as possible without having five relatively fresh players in his face.

It just makes it harder than it needs to for the kicker.

 

[rnabokov]

One thing that keeps coming back to me is the try scored in Isaako's corner. I can't remember which one, but it was when the ball went away from this wing then all of a sudden it switched back and our boys were like ' hang on we were not expecting this...is this allowed?' It was so un-Bronco like. I looked at my wife and she just shrugged and said 'that will give the coach nightmares'. It's still haunting me how we gave up that whole wing as if it never existed.

I think that is the one I referred to where Roberts had wandered in field leaving, leaving Isaako alone on the wing and Fifita still too wide to mark up at centre. Hunt saw Roberts out of position and switched the play back to where it started. A good read by Hunt

 

[Aldo]

I understand giving players the benefit of the doubt when they try something and it doesn't come off because of the difficulty of the play. However, this wasn't too much to ask and Glenn bottled it.

It stood out to me since Ben Hunt's one of the worst defenders in the NRL and I would have thought the Broncos would have fought fire with fire. I thought the Broncos would really target that left edge and they rarely went that way. This was one of the few instances they did and they nearly scored a soft try off the back of it.



Isaako still had plenty of time and space to get the kick in. Yes, Host and Lafai formed a chase, but they still couldn't get to Jamayne in time, Isaako was just off target.

The Dragons were only in position once the entire set and it just so happened to be the last play. Brisbane were in the exact same position as the Dragons from the second tackle, so they would have to burn through three more tackles before taking the shot. The longer the teams leaves it, the more the pressure builds up, especially when the defence doesn't have to constantly retreat 10m. Which is to say, the Dragons-Broncos comparison isn't 1:1.



By that logic, Brisbane could have tried anything that set and it would have been the right idea.

Sure, it couldn't be any worse but the field goal is the high percentage play.



Higher percentage of ricochets, higher percentage of conceding a penalty for an off-side chase, less likely to score points, more likely to concede a 7 tackle set.

It's easier to say in hindsight 'eh why not' but if it had have happened live, it would be scrutinised and rightfully so.



By the time the player playing the ball gets to his feet, dusts himself off, has a stretch, has a scratch and gives a dopey look to the referee, the defence will be on their marks. As soon as the ball is down on the ground, they're off and the dummy half has to ensure he gets the pass off as quickly as possible without having five relatively fresh players in his face.

It just makes it harder than it needs to for the kicker.

To be honest, I've always thought that he was one of the better half defenders going around.

 

[Big Pete]

To be honest, I've always thought that he was one of the better half defenders going around.

He was a few years ago but then something happened. It dropped off drastically in 2016 and he's become an easy target ever since.

When Hunt was with the Broncos, it seemed like his best performances were on the back of his defence. When he started getting dominated and started arm-grabbing, it became clear he was off his game.

He's still never quite recovered, although he has flashes of brilliance.

 

[Wolfie]

I understand giving players the benefit of the doubt when they try something and it doesn't come off because of the difficulty of the play. However, this wasn't too much to ask and Glenn bottled it.

An error in judgement and bottling something are two totally different things. Glenn thought he could have got there doing what he did and he made a mistake. Thats not what you are saying he did.

 

[Big Pete]

An error in judgement and bottling something are two totally different things. Glenn thought he could have got there doing what he did and he made a mistake. Thats not what you are saying he did.

Right, I'm saying his basic approach was wrong. It wasn't bad judgement, it was bad fundamentals that prevented him from scoring.

 

[Wolfie]

Right, I'm saying his basic approach was wrong. It wasn't bad judgement, it was bad fundamentals that prevented him from scoring.

I dont agree mate. He must have thought he could force his way over the line. On a technical level, i don't think he did anything wrong. He got down low and tried to force his way over the line, and at a guess he probably thought he had the momentum to carry himself over the line so i'd say fundamentally he didn't get it wrong in terms of what i presume he was aiming at doing. I cant speak for Glenn, because i dont know what his thinking at the time was so i'm just guessing, but my take on it is he probably didnt judge the distance to the line very well.

Maybe i should go and look at it again though, I could be wrong!