POST GAME Round 3 - Tigers vs Broncos

[Porthoz]

Honestly, I m sorry but I cannot agree with your comments when you are so openly biased. Basing a large portion of your response on why Gillett’s score is justified and the others aren’t, and why his shortcomings are everyone else’s fault and not his, only reinforces my thoughts.

You score Sims on what you expect from a prop but somehow Gillett is excempt from this same scoring method and the reason he doesn’t look as good is everyone else’s fault - please.

Cordner was so much more dangerous than him in the Australian team last year and throughout Origin, without a great halves combination making him look better (in origin). Based on those performances alone, if Gillett is in the top 2 second rowers in Australia, that doesn’t bode well for the rest of the comp.

FWIW, I don’t have a vendetta against Gillett (his defence has improved out of sight since early this decade, but if you’re honest, his attack has gone backwards at an almost identical rate), but he is not excempt from criticism just because he’s your favourite player - he’s been stinking it up in attack for quite some time now.

You also didn’t provide a response to what you think we should have done last night when there was so often no other choice than to give it to the only bloke putting his hand up to go forward (McGuire) on tackle 4 or 5. When we did it, giving it to Gillett didn’t seem to work but that’ll obviously be someone else’s fault. So unless we are going to kick on tackle 4 or 5, someone has to run it. Who should it be?

If you don't think the half next to the backrower has a massive and determining influence on the latter's attack, and if you don't see the difference between the Broncos Gillett post 2014 (must be an enormous coincidence that his attack went down at that point) and the one before then, or the Rep Gillett, there's nothing else to discuss.
I'm sure there's no vendetta, and it's all my bias.

As too Moose, my point is that he shouldn't be the one putting his hand up on tackles 4 and 5, because he has zero creativity, no offload and even his passing is below par.
Tackles 4 and 5 are generally not about go forward, but about disrupting the opposition's defense by creating gaps or a numerical inferiority to provide scoring opportunities, force a repeat set, or at the very least gain a good defensive field position.
McGuire can do none of the above, and he shouldn't have to, which is why I don't think he should be a lock in the first place.

P.S. At least Gillett can pass and even kick when he gets the ball on the 5th, which also should not happen! At least, he doesn't demand the ball as first receiver in those occasions.

 

[Super Freak]

Broncos rookie Jamayne Isaako reveals how All Blacks legend Dan Carter inspired his matchwinning penalty

March 24, 2018

BRONCOS young gun Jamayne Isaako has revealed how studying the goalkicking style of All Blacks legend Dan Carter helped him become a golden-point hero.

Five years ago Isaako didn’t know the rules of rugby league but the Kiwi rugby product underlined why he can become a long-term NRL star after coolly clinching Brisbane’s 9-7 defeat of Wests Tigers on Friday night.

In just his fourth NRL game, Isaako the Iceman scored all of Brisbane’s nine points — including the 87th-minute penalty goa that broke the Tigers’ hearts in an extra-time Campbelltown slugfest.

But it was his 77th-minute penalty goal that levelled the scores at 6-all and kept Brisbane alive that illustrated Isaako’s character, confidence and composure.

When the Broncos were awarded a penalty near the touchline 30 metres out, skipper Darius Boyd walked over to Isaako and asked: “Can you kick it?”

The 21-year-old simply nodded, then produced three magical plays. He landed the penalty, kicked a field-goal 60 seconds later and with the match in the balance in golden-point, Isaako broke the deadlock.

Nicknamed “Hollywood” because of his slick looks, Isaako is a sweet striker of the ball and his goalkicking is Carter, the All Blacks wizard who kicked 574 goals in his 112-Test career.

“I come from a rugby background and growing up I idolised Dan Carter,” said the Christchurch-born Isaako.

“Being here in Brisbane, in my spare time I get out and practise my goalkicking.

“I kick for my (Intrust Super) Cup team at Souths Logan and with ‘Jordy’ (Broncos winger Jordan Kahu) out at the moment with injury, I’ve been privileged enough to get the kicking duties.”

Of his extra-time heroics, Isaako said: “It’s probably the most nervous I have been. I was pretty nervous, it was a little way out but I thought just take one for the team. I was grateful to knock it over and get the win.”

Isaako’s journey to the NRL is remarkable. Five years ago, he went along to watch a friend trial for Cronulla at a Sharks development day in Christchurch.

After a spate of on-field injuries, Isaako put his hand up to bump up the numbers and blew the Sharks’ scouts away with his speed and explosive stepping.

At 16, he moved to Sydney and lived in a Sharks house with Valentine Holmes but felt he needed a change. In 2015, his manager Jim Banaghan picked up the phone and called Broncos coach Wayne Bennett.

''He wanted to play at the Broncos,” Brisbane coach Wayne Bennett said.

''I got a telephone call and he wanted to play for the Broncos. The Sharks did recruit him but I got a phone call that he wanted to come. I had just come back [from the World Cup] and we grabbed him.''

Isaako admits he wasn't happy at Cronulla, asking his manager to try and find him a spot in an already talented roster at the Broncos.

''I was signed at Cronulla and I just wasn't happy with how things were going down there,'' Isaako said.

''The way footy was going for me at the time, one lunch time I met up with my manager and spoke to him about trying to get up to Brissy. He got in contact with Wayne and managed to get something going.

Isaako once dreamt of becoming an All Black but is now relishing being a Bronco.

''I didn't know much about rugby league when I got here, but I knew the Broncos had a history of being a good club and being a real professional club. My manager had links to the Broncos and I saw that as an opportunity to get up here.''

Source: Courier Mail

 

[Donny]

I'm still laughing.

I can’t wait to watch Ricky in the post match presser

 

[Mr Fourex]

OK, public apology to Sims. I gave him some grief when he first came on last night, but then something clicked in his head and you can't deny he put in. So, well done and apologies.

Don't apologise ....... more than anything your barbs may have been mistimed, rather than flat out wrong.

He's a Sims. It's in his genes. He's bound to **** up sooner or later and cost us a penalty....or a game.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Nah, different rules for some. Imagine if I did the same thing

 

[Mr Fourex]

About McCullough, I know everyone is proud of him making around 60 tackles a game, but IMO he should be making at least 15 less. It stiffles his attack. I'd rather have so meone else pick up that tackling workrate and have McCullough sharper in attack.

He was so fucked from making those tackles, he couldn't get into dummy half late in the 2nd half........and when he did, he quite often passed to the wrong player.

 

[rnabokov]

Lock is a middle forward , bird would get rolled. He is strong but not a big enough body , he is better on the edges. Locks don't need to be super creative anymore, because of the evolution of the fullback role. Thats where your third playmaker comes from now .

Lock is what you want it to be, what you make it, in his case, for mine a 2nd 5/8. Is the hooker a middle forward? Are hookers big bodies?

As for the FB role, chalk and cheese to what I am suggesting Bird can do do at lock. The FB comes into the line now and then to make the extra man so to speak, sweep plays whatever. I am suggesting a role for a ball playing lock that is in the middle giving the halves and edge runners options, as well as having a strong running game.

On 4th and 5th tackle options, I'd rather give the ball to Bird than Moose. As for defence, I reckon Bird can cut it in the middle.

 

[Kyall]

Boyd needs to stop getting in the imo on the try line.

 

[Alec]

Boyd needs to stop getting in the imo on the try line.

Yeah, it feels like teams will really start exploiting that. I'll especially worry if we play the Storm, and Smith puts in a perfectly weighted kick for Slater, Vunivalu or Addo-Carr.

 

[Kyall]

Boyd needs to stop getting in the defensive line on try line.

 

[_wwong]

Yeah, it feels like teams will really start exploiting that. I'll especially worry if we play the Storm, and Smith puts in a perfectly weighted kick for Slater, Vunivalu or Addo-Carr.

The worst part is Boyd will make a tackle in the defensive line but won't hustle back to his feet to get back into fullback position for the following play. It's gonna bite the broncos in the ass sooner or later.

 

[WASSHHH]

If you don't think the half next to the backrower has a massive and determining influence on the latter's attack, and if you don't see the difference between the Broncos Gillett post 2014 (must be an enormous coincidence that his attack went down at that point) and the one before then, or the Rep Gillett, there's nothing else to discuss.
I'm sure there's no vendetta, and it's all my bias.

As too Moose, my point is that he shouldn't be the one putting his hand up on tackles 4 and 5, because he has zero creativity, no offload and even his passing is below par.
Tackles 4 and 5 are generally not about go forward, but about disrupting the opposition's defense by creating gaps or a numerical inferiority to provide scoring opportunities, force a repeat set, or at the very least gain a good defensive field position.
McGuire can do none of the above, and he shouldn't have to, which is why I don't think he should be a lock in the first place.

P.S. At least Gillett can pass and even kick when he gets the ball on the 5th, which also should not happen! At least, he doesn't demand the ball as first receiver in those occasions.

No vendetta at all - I just don’t agree with offering up other players as excuses for the ongoing poor performances of another just because they’re your favourite player.

Your view on Gillett smacks of double standards and hypocrisy. Somehow his continual decline in attacking form is entirely and utterly someone (everyone?) else’s fault? As you say, it’s been going backwards since 2014. The only consistent factor in that equation is him but somehow you believe it is the 6 or so halfbacks he’s had inside him at the Broncos that are the problem. That is such a narrowminded and shortsighted view to have.

As just one example; Cordner was damn near unstoppable in the World Cup last year, Gillett just participated in comparison. They had the same halves giving them the ball.
Now, if you don’t like that comparison, just consider that I’m simply using your yardstick when judging Sims the other night. If Cordner can do it, Gillett can to - so it’s what should be expected of him.
But he simply didn’t deliver the same performances as Cordner at the World Cup. Why? It obviously wasn’t Gillett’s fault, so who’s fault was it?

That, and you still haven’t said who should be getting the ball at the Broncos on 4 and 5. Clearly you don’t think it should be McGuire, despite the fact that no one else seems to put their hand up, but you can’t or won’t say who it should be. Anyone can highlight a problem without providing a solution - that’s the easy part.

I’m all for people having different opinions or seeing the game in a different way, but not when they’re based purely on bias.

And finally, I just can’t let this slide without further comment.
Lodge has played 3 games of NRL in the last 3 years - way to lump ridiculously high expectations on him. Added to that, he’s had such extraordinary scrutiny placed on him (more than I can recall on any other player), has exactly zero runs on the board in terms of NRL match fitness and is putting up great numbers in attack and defence - numbers we’ve been in dire need of for far too long. Give him time to improve the other areas of his game!! Honestly, I get the impression Lockyer would have only ever played one game for Australia if you were coaching when he stunk it up deluxe in his debut.

 

[Super Freak]

Boyd had no choice but to get in the defensive line for the Tigers try.

Gillett was at marker and Sims was too slow getting back onside. There was a massive hole there and Boyd had no choice but to come into the defensive line.

If he didn't, Brooks would have had a massive hole to go through.

 

[Wolfie]

Lock is what you want it to be, what you make it, in his case, for mine a 2nd 5/8. Is the hooker a middle forward? Are hookers big bodies?

As for the FB role, chalk and cheese to what I am suggesting Bird can do do at lock. The FB comes into the line now and then to make the extra man so to speak, sweep plays whatever. I am suggesting a role for a ball playing lock that is in the middle giving the halves and edge runners options, as well as having a strong running game.

On 4th and 5th tackle options, I'd rather give the ball to Bird than Moose. As for defence, I reckon Bird can cut it in the middle.

Exactly. People are assuming he is going to play the lock role like a lock plays today as practically another prop when he just wont. Every man and his dog knows Bennett has bought him here to be a ball playing lock. The only way it wont happen long term is if it just doesnt work.

 

[Super Freak]

Exactly. People are assuming he is going to play the lock role like a lock plays today as practically another prop when he just wont. Every man and his dog knows Bennett has bought him here to be a ball playing lock. The only way it wont happen long term is if it just doesnt work.

He will still have to make a lot of tackles.

You cannot play in the middle and get away with not tackling.

He isn't used to making that many tackles, which is likely to reduce his effectiveness in attack.

 

[Wolfie]

He will still have to tackle his ass off.

You cannot play in the middle and get away with not tackling.

Defence wont be an issue for him once he gets fit i dont think. I dont think we will be playing the way we are now anyway, things will change.

 

[Number6]

1. Boyd - Come on, this is getting beyond a joke now. The guy can hardly move, is losing his safe as houses reputation and continues to display a bad attitude at inopportune times. If you are going to have a go at your teammates, at least lead by example and not make frequent mistakes yourself. Did not need to re-sign him, particularly on such a big wage. Put him on the wing, hopefully he'll do something or at least re-gain some kind of fitness. Constantly out of position, in fact, when was the last time he broke a tackle or actually made a try-saver? Reminds me of the Soccer World Cup Semi four years ago between Germany and Brazil, the heat map after showed the fullback spent most of his time on the ground at left mid-field, hardly where your fullback should be - 3
2. Oates - He came, he saw, he got corked and that was that. He would have likely finished that Opacic saved try proving how valuable he still is to this side on that wing. That said, hard to give a good score when you miss a lot of the game and even harder to believe he was about as effective as the team captain by NOT being there - 3
3. Roberts - Looked dangerous as usual but was frustrated by a very good Tigers' defense, he was almost released a couple of times by good early ball from KNik but overall, like the rest of the team, not really as dangerous or impacting as usual - 5
19. Bird - He looks like a forward out there but competed in everything and that is why he has been bought to the club after all. He looked good on the very limited opportunities he had and I loved his kick chases, first one there every time. Very good defense which is what you would expect and did he score or didn't he? I'm happy with the decision - 5
5. Isaako - I'm not as convinced as everyone else that he will be a great fullback BUT I'm definitely not going to be surprised if I'm proven wrong. He was fantastic in what was probably the worst game I've ever seen. Runs with gusto, catches like a champion, has some wheels and boy, that kicking is a weapon. The way he iced that sideline conversion and drop goals under pressure were just silky sublime. Scored all the points and deserved to do so - 8
6. Milford - I've been very critical of the little guy and let's be honest, tonight wasn't his best game BUT he was still good. He was popping through the line and threatening at times and his kicking seems to have noticeably improved. He really tried to take that game on and with the effort he has displayed in the last two weeks, the execution will come - 6
7. KNik - His kicking was abysmal, absolutely fifth-rate, no denying that. He also seems to still be finding his role but keep giving him time. He was showing a lot of signs tonight. That line break was fantastic and whether he or Gillett was at fault for that pass doesn't really matter for mine because he has done something similar two weeks in a row. His pass selection was actually very good, a big reason the side was able to go forward so well. If he can get those half chances he is creating to click, there is a good halfback in there. Give him a few more rounds yet - 4
8. Lodge - A bit of a mixed bag truth be told. He was very effective for the most part, as he has been all three rounds thus far but does some strange stuff at times whether it be an ill-timed pass, a dropped ball or a lazy penalty / return to marker. He is trying his guts out though and good on him for it. Compare his go-forward to Blair's and this is a HUGE improvement - 7
9. Macca - Not as good in offense as last week but made up for it in defense. This defense was important as that is the way the game went. He did so much defensive work it was great. So much time out of the game haves me feeling more than ok that last week will once again be his standard when back to full fitness - 7
10. TPJ - Looked very, very good once again early and not having him return due to injury really stunted the game plan to a large extent. Hope the injury is not too serious - 2
11. Glenn - He is such a great clubman, he really is. I want to give him a really big wrap tonight. I thought he was actually really good (as were most of the forwards). His strength is his motor and his agility and as the game wore on and all the forward were out on their feet, he put his hand up for some really big runs and did well. His defense also did not let anyone down - 7
12. Gillett - He showed signs tonight of getting back to his best. His defense is rarely questionable these days but his attack was returning. He made some really good runs as well. He is still a little off the pace but getting there. He really should have at least tried to take that KNik pass - 6
13. McGuire - He was immense. Absolute SOO class game from him. He was there taking the big runs when everyone else was tired and he got a ton of post-contact metres to go with it. Tackled ferociously as always and was just in everything. Absolute top class game - 9

4. Opacic - Two weeks in a row it has been really good that he has been carried on the bench BUT if he does so again next week, likely another winger will go down. He was very solid out of position on the wing despite not really playing there much. That said, he wasn't really tested too much in defense but he made some excellent runs at the back end of the game. He really should have scored but credit to the defender there too, it was a great tackle - 6
14. Thaiday - He was better than previously which is great to see. He is well and truly in the twilight of his career now and hopefully he can go out with a bang. No one wants to see him dropped if he can maintain a high level and quality. Tonight he was good on the back of a lot of good work by other forwards - 5
15. Joffa - I'm a huge fan of this kid (and he still really is a kid) and he backed up last week with another excellent performance in this game. His go forward is amazing and provides so much punch off the bench. He is an absolute keeper and very underrated in many ways - 7
16. Sims - Look, he was fantastic in the back end of this game but that is what I find so frustrating about the guy. We all know he can defend hard but often goes missing in attack. Then, when he doe make runs, he often goes down like a sack of potatoes but in this game, he showed when he can do. He made some brilliant runs and so many post-contact metres as well. Let's hope he can finally start to back it up because he generally does something like this once a year and then goes missing again - 8

Fair ratings.

Milford. We’ve been waiting for consistent execution for 2 years. Can I get a a million a year for 2 years of hit and miss?

 

[Porthoz]

No vendetta at all - I just don’t agree with offering up other players as excuses for the ongoing poor performances of another just because they’re your favourite player.

Your view on Gillett smacks of double standards and hypocrisy. Somehow his continual decline in attacking form is entirely and utterly someone (everyone?) else’s fault? As you say, it’s been going backwards since 2014. The only consistent factor in that equation is him but somehow you believe it is the 6 or so halfbacks he’s had inside him at the Broncos that are the problem. That is such a narrowminded and shortsighted view to have.

As just one example; Cordner was damn near unstoppable in the World Cup last year, Gillett just participated in comparison. They had the same halves giving them the ball.
Now, if you don’t like that comparison, just consider that I’m simply using your yardstick when judging Sims the other night. If Cordner can do it, Gillett can to - so it’s what should be expected of him.
But he simply didn’t deliver the same performances as Cordner at the World Cup. Why? It obviously wasn’t Gillett’s fault, so who’s fault was it?

That, and you still haven’t said who should be getting the ball at the Broncos on 4 and 5. Clearly you don’t think it should be McGuire, despite the fact that no one else seems to put their hand up, but you can’t or won’t say who it should be. Anyone can highlight a problem without providing a solution - that’s the easy part.

I’m all for people having different opinions or seeing the game in a different way, but not when they’re based purely on bias.

And finally, I just can’t let this slide without further comment.
Lodge has played 3 games of NRL in the last 3 years - way to lump ridiculously high expectations on him. Added to that, he’s had such extraordinary scrutiny placed on him (more than I can recall on any other player), has exactly zero runs on the board in terms of NRL match fitness and is putting up great numbers in attack and defence - numbers we’ve been in dire need of for far too long. Give him time to improve the other areas of his game!! Honestly, I get the impression Lockyer would have only ever played one game for Australia if you were coaching when he stunk it up deluxe in his debut.

You're certainly trying way too hard for someone without a vendetta. I'm just unsure whether it's about Gillett or something personal, given your insistence on making this all about me...
You want a debate? Make it about the opinion, and not about its author or what you think drives him.

Since 2014, Gillett has had Hunt and Kodi next to him. Who are these other 4 or so halfbacks he's had inside him according to you?

Cordner is an excellent backrower without a doubt, but you're off your head when you say Gillett just participated, what with gaining Man of the Match honors and scoring tries in both the Origin Arena and in the World cup in the last couple of years. Besides, you're comparing Gillo to the only guy who has a justified claim to beat him as the best backrower in the code. Not showing your hand at all here...

If Moose isn't demanding the ball on 4th and 5th tackle, it will go to someone else, ANYONE else! Of course, Macca shares the responsibility here as well.
Who should it go to on 4th and 5th? I'm sure you know the answer to this, but it should be the first receiver... you know, the guy with the no. 7 on his back.

Should I just ignore Lodge's issues because of the raw deal he's getting from the media?
Yes, he is definitely bringing something we needed. Doesn't mean he doesn't need to improve the way he peels off tackles and gets back to the line, as he is making it too easy for the opposition to gain meters just by using him as cover. He has done this in every game this season so far, and multiple times last night.
I'm not asking for him to be dropped or even lose his starting spot, only for improvement in that one aspect of his game that is letting him down. I'm sure that will improve with time though.

With the exception of Boyd (because I demand much more of the captain) and KNik (because I demand much more from a halfback), no player deviated a lot from what I expect from each position last night.
The differences in scores and their proximity, are based on what players did in positive (points added) and negative (points subtracted) terms, starting from 6, which would be my default initial value. Some were a bit better than others, that's all. You'll be hard pressed to ever see me give anyone a 10 though.

Btw, those scores are based on last night's game, not what I think of each player's merit to wear the jersey, or their history in the code. No one deserves to be dropped on one bad performance, and I have not ever implied otherwise, unlike the way your Lockyer comment pretends to colour me.

P.S. This all could of course be total bias from me, as well as from those who happen to agree with me. :superhappythumbsup: