Sack Griffin/New Coach Discussion

[Russell Coight]

We can't have it both ways guys ... either we want Griffin gone, or we want us to play good footy.

The only way for Griffin to get sacked at the end of the year is for us to play poor footy. If we start playing well Griffin will survive...

Choose !!!!!

Why do we have to choose? we won tonight with out playing good footy.

 

[talanoa]

griffin might as well only pick 16 players each week, he is an effing moron. Why would he only play molo for 7 minutes what a waste. The worst decision is in regards to oates, he is the best attacking option with hodges out. Scores a great try early on, so the coah rewards him with a 35 minute spell...... Not only is oates deadly with the ball, his defense was rock solid again. Fancy taking oates off and replacing him with stagg.

 

[Foordy]

Why do we have to choose? we won tonight with out playing good footy.

Well then we have to lose and play poorly, my point is coaches are never sacked when their teams are performing. .. so for Griffin to be sacked we can't be performing on the field

 

[Russell Coight]

Well then we have to lose and play poorly, my point is coaches are never sacked when their teams are performing. .. so for Griffin to be sacked we can't be performing on the field

I get what you are saying, but you can hardly call what we dished up tonight as performing, or what we dished up last week. If the broncos powers believe we should be a top 4 side, griffin def needs to go, because we are not a chance currently.

 

[Foordy]

I get what you are saying, but you can hardly call what we dished up tonight as performing, or what we dished up last week. If the broncos powers believe we should be a top 4 side, griffin def needs to go, because we are not a chance currently.

Well for Griffin to go we will need to keep repeating tonight's performance. It will be hard to watch for the remainder of the season (but I will), but it will benefit the Broncos in the long run, because it will mean we go into season 2015 with a new coach

 

[ningnangnong]

Horrible coach. Funny how the Griffin defenders were/are also the Hoffman in the halves defenders.

There are Griffin defenders?

 

[Russell Coight]

Well for Griffin to go we will need to keep repeating tonight's performance. It will be hard to watch for the remainder of the season (but I will), but it will benefit the Broncos in the long run, because it will mean we go into season 2015 with a new coach

In all honesty i can't see us not repeating tonights performance. I think at the start of the season we went in to each game like a bull at a gate, and had the momentum, but at this time in the season class will be the deciding factor, and i don't think we have enough of it. So we will def have a new coach in 2015

 

[Cult]

There are Griffin defenders?

Not really, just people who were over every discussion on here being turned into a Sack Griffin thread.

 

[Allo]

There are Griffin defenders?

I like him for some reason and want him, and subsequently the team/club, to be successful. Wouldn't call myself a defender though. I'm always critical of his idiocy as a coach. But I'm officially done after tonight. I want him gone.

 

[Porthoz]

Re: Round 11 - West Tigers vs Broncos - Pre-Match Discussion

That isn't true, there were other choices available and he made the call on both.

Oates was about as traditional of a debut as there was. He proved himself in the NYC and earned himself a full-time gig.

Drew was a virtual shot in the dark.

Credit where it's due.

What a load of bull. When Oates and Drew came in, who else was available to play in the backs? We were having the worst backline injury crisis in the history of the Broncos pretty much. People were so desperate, they were calling for Kemp, whom was going horrible in ISC.

 

[broncos4life]

Gordie also said the Dragons are the only team who could afford Wayne, i really doubt that is the case.

The dragons have more money than us? Please.

I love gordy but deadset he is a fucking moron sometimes. I wish he would just think before he speaks

 

[broncos4life]

The **** needs to go, it's as simple as that.

I read someone say something before about how they can't criticize the players because it's griffins coaching and that is exactly my thoughts. This fucking arsehole isn't just fucking the broncos he is fucking up the careers of these players

 

[Big Pete]

Re: Round 11 - West Tigers vs Broncos - Pre-Match Discussion

What a load of bull. When Oates and Drew came in, who else was available to play in the backs? We were having the worst backline injury crisis in the history of the Broncos pretty much. People were so desperate, they were calling for Kemp, whom was going horrible in ISC.

Oates wasn't called into play for the backs, he was brought onto the bench to play against Melbourne as a forward before Reed got injured and it just snow-balled from there. It wasn't a move motivated by injury, rather as a reward for Oates' good form, especially after a game against the Warriors where he nearly won the game against the NYC runners up.

Drew wasn't even in the conversation until his named popped up right before the Dragons game, that's how inexperienced and green he was. Now, this selection didn't have as much to do about Jordan as it did about who he was replacing, Maranta who as we all know was in horrible form but it did indicate a willingness to drop players and give a young kid a go, even if the kid clearly wasn't up first grade long term.

My argument isn't that Hook is a great development coach. No way, at least not this level which has surprised me given how good he was at NYC in that regard.

My argument is that when he has been given a talent like Oates to work he's done a pretty fair job of utilizing them and I think that is worth acknowledging. Yes, it may not have been ideal, but I think virtually finding room for him ever since he made grade despite various issues warrants a little credit.

 

[Porthoz]

Can't agree with that. Hook has shown he is NOT willing to take risks at all.

Oates would've probably played the token 5-7 minutes if it wasn't for Reed's injury, and Maranta was so bad that Drew was the lesser of two evils in Griffin's eyes.

Even now, Oates is sparingly used, having played most minutes of the season last night, but the proof in the pudding is Hoggman at 5/8.

If Hook was coaching the Tigers, Brooks wouldn't have cracked FG and their halves would probably be Anasta/Austin...

 

[Big Pete]

Generally speaking, I don't disagree. I just don't agree with all the hyperbole and absolutism being sprouted around. He has taken risks, not as many as others but to say he isn't willing is wrong.

Your hypothetical situation suggests that our NYC players are every bit as talented as Luke Brooks which unfortunately at this stage just isn't so. Brooks is a special talent and not the type of player that can be manufactured.

 

[Porthoz]

Generally speaking, I don't disagree. I just don't agree with all the hyperbole and absolutism being sprouted around. He has taken risks, not as many as others but to say he isn't willing is wrong.

Your hypothetical situation suggests that our NYC players are every bit as talented as Luke Brooks which unfortunately at this stage just isn't so. Brooks is a special talent and not the type of player that can be manufactured.

Until they get a real chance in FG, we can't really judge, can we?

At the moment, we're the best placed club when it comes to NYC halves, with Paia'aua, Taylor and both Nikorimas coming through. They may not all reach the heights of Brooks, who indeed looks to be a special talent, but some of them might, especially Jayden if nurtured and developed properly.

Having said that, that wasn't my point at all. I meant that even Brooks wouldn't have cracked FG under Griffin, despite being a special talent.

He is ultra conservative, which actually makes me think that is why he is ideal for coaching of the U20's, because in a comp where low risk, mistake free footy is impossible to achieve, his coaching style helps reign in the natural effusiveness from the youth, making them more solid.

 

[Big Pete]

Having said that, that wasn't my point at all. I meant that even Brooks wouldn't have cracked FG under Griffin, despite being a special talent.

...which is being based on Hook's decision to prefer Hoffman at five eigth over the other halves.

That comparison doesn't really hold up because Brooks is at a far more advanced stage in his career than the halves coming through at the Broncos.

I think the only comparison that may hold up was the one Ari brought up earlier in preferring Norman, Wallace, Prince & even Gillett at one stage over Hunt. Even so, I don't think it is as black and white given the concerns over Hunt's game that was passionately being argued about on this board.

He is ultra conservative, which actually makes me think that is why he is ideal for coaching of the U20's, because in a comp where low risk, mistake free footy is impossible to achieve, his coaching style helps reign in the natural effusiveness from the youth, making them more solid.

I definitely think that was a large part of it, but he was also afforded more room to experiment too and would constantly try out different combinations or play players in different positions to make them better players.

Obviously you cannot be as experimental in first grade but it's been an aspect that has been lacking. Which is a shame given that, when he has made changes, that have yielded better performances (but not necessarily better outcomes).

Just to sum up since I've spent much longer on this than I originally intended (damn you Hook for giving me an excuse to look into the Tigers, ha!) I think we can all agree that Hook is too conservative with his coaching. It's just a matter of how bad that aspect of his coaching is, some think he hasn't taken any risks at all in first grade, I think he's taken a few.

However, I think we can all agree that he should be taking more and taking a long term view.

There needs to be a line, something to the effect of 'Just because you coach the Broncos, doesn't make you Wayne Bennett.' A wordsmith like Ari or Danoz can run with it, that would be trumps.

Never the less, I think it's only one piece of the puzzle. There are other issues with the team. Some are manageable, others will require some tough decision making.

 

[LittleDavey]

Good discussion guys.

I think Hook has taken some risks the last couple of weeks with the whole Hannant/Kennedy thing, and he has made others - but it almost appears as though his hand has been forced on each of those risks by other parties. Injuries have in the past forced him to change players. The Hannant thing seems to have been a club edict. As someone fairly risk-averse myself, Griffin seems to be the ultimate conservative.

For mine, soooo many of our issues (as perceived by me) come down to coaching. I don't feel our players are being developed well. I don't feel our game plan (*cough*HAHAHA*splutter*) plays to our strengths. We don't seem to do a great deal of analysis of the opposition and come up with plays to combat their strengths. We seem to play the same style of footy, week in week out, whether we're playing the top teams or the bottom ones, except we have a habit of playing down to teams we should beat comfortably.

The young guys have always seemed to be a team relying heavily on confidence - remember Locky's final season? They were just about unbeatable because they were flying high, belting all-comers. But when getting beaten, they seem to get in a rut which is difficult to shake. They are improving every year, but I feel are still susceptible to mental weakness at times, which I find disappointing. I'm unsure if that's a coaching fault, I guess it is - mental toughness is IMO a critical part of the game, and somewhere we need to improve.

I guess I just sit with many others on here; I'm sick of boring footy, I'm sick of losing games we should win. I'm sick of our talented players being underutilised. As an example - we have forwards who can pass, we could play like the Dogs, we have the players capable of that - but serve up one-out running 9 times out of 10. We don't have the size to play the bash-it-up footy we try to play, we should be using the skills of our forwards to run other teams ragged, not try to bash thru bigger walls. With the players in the squad, we should be sooo much better than this. And my greatest fear is that Milford won't make an ounce of difference next year, a-la Barba this year. Admittedly Barba is injured and has his off-field dramas to control, but we don't play to his strengths either. It's reasonable to assume that if things stay as they are, we won't be playing to Milf's strengths either - we'll just stick him in the middle and 'make' him adapt to how we play. Frustrating as anything.