Sack Griffin/New Coach Discussion

[rnabokov]

Well, at the moment, I don't think it's the Broncos. More like the Draught Horses. Wonder what Milford and Barba will look like with a beer gut? I know! We can play them in the front row!

Nothing like a team of excellent talent a year older, a year flabbier, a year slower ...

(PS. Not sarcasm - just anger, sadness and disappointment).

 

[Brett]

Well, at the moment, I don't think it's the Broncos. More like the Draught Horses. Wonder what Milford and Barba will look like with a beer gut? I know! We can play them in the front row!

While I appreciate the facetiousness, I had a terrible thought. Milford comes and gets played in the #14 jersey as backup Hooker for 2014 while Prince toils away at #6 (not that he's a poor choice). Prince goes down injured in round 4, so Griffin plays Stagg in #6. :scared:

Oh the horror.

 

[Big Pete]

It's naive to think Milford or Barba only arrived on the table in the past couple of weeks - they've been an ongoing process for months now and they've only come to light recently because they're close to completion. If those opportunities didn't arise, I'm sure we would have taken other options but we didn't have to - instead management had to make sure they can cater to those players.

Hook has blooded Granville, Oates & Kahu - brought on Hunt & Gillett as starters and has gotten the best out of Hoffman. I also thought his plans post-Origin deserve credit too. The way he got Hodges/Hoffman alternating was fantastic and worked well for our squad, no doubt that has killed us in recent times.

 

[GCBRONCO]

Hook has blooded Granville, Oates & Kahu - brought on Hunt & Gillett as starters and has gotten the best out of Hoffman. I also thought his plans post-Origin deserve credit too. The way he got Hodges/Hoffman alternating was fantastic and worked well for our squad, no doubt that has killed us in recent times.

Most of those were brought out of necessity then initiative, given the injury toll in the backs it got to the stage he had no choice but to bring in the likes of Oates and Kahu(and persisted with Maranta for too long before bringing in someone like Oates), Granville was good to see but had only 2 games and basically not seen since instead persisted with Hunt and Wallace who neither showed anywhere near the impact Granville did from the bench. Hoffman again was out on the wing not because he wanted the best out of Hoffman but rather wanted a more attacking/playmaking option at fullback, he also persisted with Norman for far too long and ditto for Wallace who neither will be at the club next season, holding back the development of players who will be.

Gillett and Hodges/Hoffman I will grant, though the Hodges/Hoffman was too little too late. Some good things but they don't overcome the glaring issues that have yet to be addressed since last season.

 

[GCBRONCO]

Now that Wallace has signed with the Panthers, lets see what he does there.

 

[Big Pete]

Rookies - Most players only got blooded due to injuries or representative commitments. To deny Hook credit would be to deny basically all coaches of credit. Even then, it's a false assessment because Hook brought in Oates when he had alternative options. Similar story with Kahu, despite the guy coming back from two knee recos and being far from 100% he took a punt and stuck with him.

Hoffman - It doesn't matter what the intention was, Hook set Hoffman the challenge for the benefit of the team and ended up getting the most out of him.

Norman/Wallace - Who else was he going to pick? Hook clearly didn't have much choice in that matter and it was pretty clear that he was willing to try alternatives up until the Origin season.

How was Hodges/Hoffman too late? The consensus on here was that Norman was the right man for the job up until a bit before Origin. To pretend otherwise is some real revisionist history.

 

[rnabokov]

Is it really that simple? Please, please correct me if I am wrong.

We bought Prince with Norman as the annointed 5/8. That logic escapes me. Hoffman was our FB. As I see it, he was shunted to the wing (fortuitously and for the greater good, but, hardly a move born of strategic and tactical thinking) to accommodate Norman, or rather, the club's unfathomable recruitment policy of signing Prince.

Incredibly, despite a game plan which clearly did not focus on Wallace's strengths (nor Glenn's, Gillett's, or Thaiday's for that matter) and resulted in his form being all over the place, we kept him there until the frustration with Wallace (read Hook's game plan) resulted in him being shunted to bench hooker and Hunt got his chance at half - not from good strategy, but lack of any other alternatives, and too late for this season.

I won't go on other than to say that the club's and Hook's decision making in this issue is sod ordinary, and the proof of that pudding is where we are on the ladder.

Oh, and the team's fitness. Simply appalling.

 

[Raw Boned Youngster]

the organisation expects us fans to buy the spin...
They should understand that, as fans, we deserve and expect a more professional, forward thinking and contemporary Organisation.

 

[Big Pete]

Nobody really knows but this is my theory.

We brought in Prince because Hook knew Norman didn't have it in him this season to play five eigth for the entire duration of the season. Hence, Prince was given the go and was clearly the pick of our halves in the pre-season. This coincides with the consensus on here. The plan was to develop Norman as a playmaker from fullback where he would be given more time and space to work his plays.

I believe Hoffman would have been made to play wing regardless of the injury to Copley. While it was the PR reason, I honestly believe that's how it was always going to be, at least to start with. Why? Because Hook displayed his intentions towards the end of last season.

Injuries, teething problems and transfers muddied all of that.

By no means is Hook perfect. There are plenty of valid criticisms and some great posts in this thread but there are positives to take out of this season. Whether they were through Hook's coaching wasn't really a point but he deserves credit.

 

[GCBRONCO]

Rookies - Most players only got blooded due to injuries or representative commitments. To deny Hook credit would be to deny basically all coaches of credit. Even then, it's a false assessment because Hook brought in Oates when he had alternative options. Similar story with Kahu, despite the guy coming back from two knee recos and being far from 100% he took a punt and stuck with him.

It's not about denying Hook credit, its more about putting it into perspective how much he actually deserves, bringing in a rookie during the rep season or it gets to the stage injuries force you to make those decisions out of necessity rather then initiative, two very different things.

Hoffman - It doesn't matter what the intention was, Hook set Hoffman the challenge for the benefit of the team and ended up getting the most out of him.

Actually it does when the results are related more to the players attitude and character then the actual move, Hoffman sucked it up and went out and did his job, when he was immediately moved back to fullback it was pretty obvious the difference between Hoffman willing to do what he needs to do for the side then Norman who's ego is more important then anything else. We gained things on the wing yes but we lost things at fullback as well.

Norman/Wallace - Who else was he going to pick? Hook clearly didn't have much choice in that matter and it was pretty clear that he was willing to try alternatives up until the Origin season.

Griffin has shown an unwillingness to back Hunt as a starting halfback or 5/8th for any great period until recent times despite giving Norman and Wallace far too much time and neither developed the results but still remained for too long how has this paid off for the Broncos by doing so when both will be gone when Hunt could have been given that shot earlier?

How was Hodges/Hoffman too late? The consensus on here was that Norman was the right man for the job up until a bit before Origin. To pretend otherwise is some real revisionist history.

The consensus was prior to the season he was the right man for the job, as it went on it became obvious he wasn't putting 100% in, just biding his time till the season was over and going to the Eels and still he remained yet alternatives existed, people were very much calling for his axing well before the SOO period. Alternatives were presented, even Hodges was suggested at fullback.

 

[rnabokov]

Nobody really knows but this is my theory.

We brought in Prince because Hook knew Norman didn't have it in him this season to play five eigth for the entire duration of the season. Hence, Prince was given the go and was clearly the pick of our halves in the pre-season. This coincides with the consensus on here. The plan was to develop Norman as a playmaker from fullback where he would be given more time and space to work his plays.

I believe Hoffman would have been made to play wing regardless of the injury to Copley. While it was the PR reason, I honestly believe that's how it was always going to be, at least to start with. Why? Because Hook displayed his intentions towards the end of last season.

Injuries, teething problems and transfers muddied all of that.

By no means is Hook perfect. There are plenty of valid criticisms and some great posts in this thread but there are positives to take out of this season. Whether they were through Hook's coaching wasn't really a point but he deserves credit.

Pete, I appreciate your valiant attempts to provide a balanced view when one side of the fulcrum is for mine utterly unbalanced.

The only positives I take from this season is Hoffman's revelation on the wing, Oates as our next Gene Miles, Hunt maybe what we need as a class half back and ... and ... and that's it. All good luck rather than good management, and at the cost of coming 3rd last

 

[Big Pete]

It's not about denying Hook credit, its more about putting it into perspective how much he actually deserves, bringing in a rookie during the rep season or it gets to the stage injuries force you to make those decisions out of necessity rather then initiative, two very different things.

Then tell the full story.

Oates was born out of initiative and Kahu would have been too but his progression was always going to be a delicate process as he was recovering from two knee reconstructions. He was given an opportunity to state his case in the pre-season trials and it was clear that he needed more time on the field before he was ready for his NRL debut.

Actually it does when the results are related more to the players attitude and character then the actual move, Hoffman sucked it up and went out and did his job, when he was immediately moved back to fullback it was pretty obvious the difference between Hoffman willing to do what he needs to do for the side then Norman who's ego is more important then anything else.

Even so, Hook did the right thing by Hoffman in the end by putting him in a position that benefitted not only him but the team in general. None of us know what he did behind the scenes to help develop Hoffman as a winger but he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Griffin has shown an unwillingness to back Hunt as a starting halfback or 5/8th for any great period until recent times despite giving Norman and Wallace far too much time and neither developed the results but still remained for too long how has this paid off for the Broncos by doing so when both will be gone when Hunt could have been given that shot earlier?

Norman/Wallace helped get us off to a fantastic start last year and were continuously improving until the Origin period stuck. Following Origin Brisbane suffered an unfortunate injury toll which rendered us short in the backs. Despite Wallace deserving to be dropped, we simply didn't have the cattle to make that move.

Hunt was then given an opportunity to stake his claim in the pre-season. He didn't and it was clear that Prince/Wallace was the best combination and needed time to gel. When it became apparent that wasn't happening, Hook opted to make changes, even going with Prince/Hunt but then the Origin period hit once again and it was clear that Hunt was going to struggle in that period.

He's since been given an opportunity as half and he's beginning to show why Hook was so hesistant to go with him.

The consensus was prior to the season he was the right man for the job, as it went on it became obvious he wasn't putting 100% in, just biding his time till the season was over and going to the Eels and still he remained yet alternatives existed, people were very much calling for his axing well before the SOO period. Alternatives were presented, even Hodges was suggested at fullback.

It was still around when we won three in a row and wasn't until the Eels games when things changed.

The problem was, people wanted Hodges to replace him. Two fold problem here. Hodges last stint at fullback resulted him in doing a hammy and he was on Origin duty. What about Kahu? Again, JK was constantly suffering injuries. To make out that Hook persisted with these guys like he had much of a choice isn't accurate at all.

 

[Alec]

2014 should be a make or break year for a couple of our players alongside Griffin too. Mostly McCullough and Hunt, I guess.

 

[GCBRONCO]

Oates was born out of initiative and Kahu would have been too but his progression was always going to be a delicate process as he was recovering from two knee reconstructions. He was given an opportunity to state his case in the pre-season trials and it was clear that he needed more time on the field before he was ready for his NRL debut.

Since when was Oates born out of initiative, he was brought in during the injury period when we were losing backs fast, he didn't do it when we were safe and still had Maranta in poor form. As for Kahu I will grant injuries have held him back but I doubt if Copley was in the side he would have been brought in as early.

Even so, Hook did the right thing by Hoffman in the end by putting him in a position that benefitted not only him but the team in general. None of us know what he did behind the scenes to help develop Hoffman as a winger but he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

It was the right move yes but it was a result of moving Norman to fullback and that brought problems of its own too, don't do that and Hoffman remains and for all we know Hoffman could have still come out and had a top season anyway, he admitted last season he wasn't putting all in anyway so for all we know he could have just as easily decide he wanted to change that. Perhaps Hook played a part in it yes but if your going to give him credit that then he should share the blame of moving Norman as well.

Norman/Wallace helped get us off to a fantastic start last year and were continuously improving until the Origin period stuck. Following Origin Brisbane suffered an unfortunate injury toll which rendered us short in the backs. Despite Wallace deserving to be dropped, we simply didn't have the cattle to make that move.

Norman and Wallace were playing well early on granted last season but since then they have done bugger all to suggest that Hunt should have been denied any real length of time in the halves (a game here and there doesn't count).

Hunt was then given an opportunity to stake his claim in the pre-season. He didn't and it was clear that Prince/Wallace was the best combination and needed time to gel. When it became apparent that wasn't happening, Hook opted to make changes, even going with Prince/Hunt but then the Origin period hit once again and it was clear that Hunt was going to struggle in that period.

He's since been given an opportunity as half and he's beginning to show why Hook was so hesistant to go with him.

Hunt was given no real opportunity to stake his claim in the offseason let alone in the early rounds of the season which he should have been, the Broncos had just signed Prince in the off season a message to both Norman and Hunt of their intentions, both Prince and Wallace failed to deliver prior to Hunt's entry into the starting halves and only once Hunt was given a shot did our halves look damaging at all this season. As for beginning to show why Hook was hesistant to go with him, quite the opposite given the scenario his been put into, morale is down, barely any chance to make the finals, large injury toll, his done far better in these circumstances compared to what Prince and Wallace had to work with earlier in this season. Again this is just him playing it safe till its obvious his got nothing to lose, I would have respected him more if he made tougher decisions like this early on.

The problem was, people wanted Hodges to replace him. Two fold problem here. Hodges last stint at fullback resulted him in doing a hammy and he was on Origin duty. What about Kahu? Again, JK was constantly suffering injuries. To make out that Hook persisted with these guys like he had much of a choice isn't accurate at all.

Other options existed, Granville has shown his ability to play fullback in the Qld Cup, we signed Bond, Kemp etc and if Hodges playing SOO was a problem then surely that was an ideal time to do so?

At the end of the day Big Pete I want him to look back at this season and really learn from it, if the club is prepared to back him then I don't want just a repeat of this season where the same mistakes and problems exist from the past season, thats what disappoints me the most, some areas we did improve but the glaring issues from last season still exist or have even gotten worse, don't address those and I get the feeling next season could be even worse.

 

[Mr Fourex]

The only positives I take from this season is Hoffman's revelation on the wing, Oates as our next Gene Miles, Hunt maybe what we need as a class half back and ... and ... and that's it. All good luck rather than good management, and at the cost of coming 3rd last

I think you're over looking one very big positive that we've achieved this year. A change in the halves and the clearing out of "dead wood" ....so to speak. That in itself, was huge!

PLUS

There's talk of two of the leagues brightest up and coming stars maybe joining us........so there's plenty to take out of this year.

I'm feeling very positive for next year and beyond .....

 

[GCBRONCO]

I think you're over looking one very big positive that we've achieved this year. A change in the halves and the clearing out of "dead wood" ....so to speak. That in itself, was huge!

PLUS

There's talk of two of the leagues brightest up and coming stars maybe joining us........so there's plenty to take out of this year.

I'm feeling very positive for next year and beyond .....

Wait and see Fourex for all we know it could end up Inglis style.

 

[Mr Fourex]

2014 should be a make or break year for a couple of our players alongside Griffin too. Mostly McCullough and Hunt, I guess.

I'm hoping that the DCE dream is still out there. I honestly don't think Hunt has it in him. He may just be what we need for next year....before luring Evans. I hope I'm wrong....about Hunt.

Griffin I would think will be under huge pressure next year. If things aren't looking any better, definitely on the cards to be shown the door.

 

[Socnorb]

If there is one thing we've missed this year, it's speed with a capital S. Hook can't coach it . You either have it of you don't. Our new additions may go some way to solving that problem.