CRICKET Second Test- Australia v West Indies

[Sproj]

Interestingly, Warner averages 32 away from home, definition of a flat track bully.

Head is about 24 away from home. Marnus averages about 45 away from home but get this, Smith averages 60! That is despite never having done that well in Africa which kind of supports the idea he struggles against (well has a bit more difficulty with) express pace.

 

[Fernando]

Just cause it troubled him last year doesn’t mean he will take the same amount of time to recover. Likely yes he will miss 1 game due to load management but I highly doubt that he will be out for the whole series. I think you will find that last year was very much precautionary rather than just being entirely incapable. I doubt he will want to miss nearly 2 straight home summers from a side strain of all things. My guess is he will play Gabba and SCG and Scott will play at the BCG (Boland Crocket Ground) on Boxing Day.

I think he's next to no chance of playing at the Gabba.

 

[Sproj]

It's very difficult to compare players from one era Vs another era, no doubt Marnus is off to a great start to his career, but when it comes to selecting lists of the all time best or selecting best ever XI's, I prefer to do that once a player's career is over. IMO Marnus has to go on and prove himself more and more, especially against better attacks than what he has faced so far this summer and also overseas away from "home" tracks.

That said, I think he has potential to be in the conversation and I'm looking forward to watching the rest of his career, especially live at the Gabba on the 17th against the Proteas.

Marnus has averages about 65 in tests for each of the last four years straight, that is very, very impressive. Ponting had 5 years over 65 but as an asterisk, he also had one of those seasons at 100! He also had another 2 seasons at 63. Smith has 5 years over over 70! (Six if you include his second season which was only one test) AND a sixth yeat (this year) at about 65. Border had 6. Steve Waugh had EIGHT at or around 60! Hussey had 4 over or around 60. So Labs is already in the company of some of these players.

Bradman had SEVEN seasons over 100!

Conversely, Warner has 1 year over 60 (2 if you include his one test season where he averaged 155). Chappell had only 3 at or over 60 (3 at 100+ but two of those with only one test) BUT Chappell was extremely consistent, didn't drop under 50 many seasons. Clarke had 3 over 60 but one huge year over 100..

I get all of the comments about waiting and seeing with Marnus but he is WELL on the way there. Remember, he is only 28 and entering his prime years now. He is due to have a career year still. Based on other players, this hasn't happened for him yet!

 

[Sproj]

Hundred to Head by the way, yet another flat track bully.

 

[BooKhaki]

The ones in bold definitely but the others he is on par or already better. Interestingly, his average is 15 runs better than Ponting's after the same number of tests. Also 3 runs less than M.Hussey. He also averages 5 runs more than Smith at the same test point. So it isn't pulling it out of my butt to say he is in that company.

If Marnus retired now, you'd consider his career better? If you offered me the career of every bloke I named, compared to Marnus right now, Marnus is dead last.

He has played 30 tests. If he is still averaging over 50 after 100 tests, I'll consider him an all time great. But calling for a bloke with about 3k runs and 10 hundreds an all time player is way too soon. And this isn't even taking into comparison the quality of opposition, which I believe is inferior at the moment, while also using much better equipment.

But if all you want to do is talk averages, I assume Boland is in your top 10 bowlers also.

 

[BooKhaki]

I get all of the comments about waiting and seeing with Marnus but he is WELL on the way there. Remember, he is only 28 and entering his prime years now. He is due to have a career year still. Based on other players, this hasn't happened for him yet!

Of course he is on his way. But you don't name all-time lists because someone looks good early in their career.

 

[The True King]

All these lists and I'm yet to see Adam Voges...

Proof that averages mean nothing if you can't sustain it for at least 50 tests.

 

[Sproj]

If Marnus retired now, you'd consider his career better? If you offered me the career of every bloke I named, compared to Marnus right now, Marnus is dead last.

He has played 30 tests. If he is still averaging over 50 after 100 tests, I'll consider him an all time great. But calling for a bloke with about 3k runs and 10 hundreds an all time player is way too soon. And this isn't even taking into comparison the quality of opposition, which I believe is inferior at the moment, while also using much better equipment.

But if all you want to do is talk averages, I assume Boland is in your top 10 bowlers also.

Yeah sure if you ignore most of the points, you come to this conclusion. You know who is in arguments for my all time top three XIs, Shane Bond and he played 18 tests. Guess who is often put in the best test XIs of all time, including Richie Benaud's, Graeme Pollock. Guess how many tests he played - 23.

 

[Sproj]

All these lists and I'm yet to see Adam Voges...

Proof that averages mean nothing if you can't sustain it for at least 50 tests.

See above.

 

[Fitzy]

If Marnus retired now, you'd consider his career better? If you offered me the career of every bloke I named, compared to Marnus right now, Marnus is dead last.

He has played 30 tests. If he is still averaging over 50 after 100 tests, I'll consider him an all time great. But calling for a bloke with about 3k runs and 10 hundreds an all time player is way too soon. And this isn't even taking into comparison the quality of opposition, which I believe is inferior at the moment, while also using much better equipment.

But if all you want to do is talk averages, I assume Boland is in your top 10 bowlers also.

What a disgraceful fucken comment. BOLAND TOP 10? **** off man he is the GOAT. None of this top 10 shit. Only top one and it’s him. Will have a statue of him at every sports ground in Australia. A new Australian monarchy will form and Scott will be the crown ruler.

 

[Sproj]

Well I am waiting for my next meeting in 15 minutes, so thought I'd do another list, what do you guys reckon about this for the test side in three years' time:

1. Renshaw/Hunt/Chandrasinghe (Khawaja will be like 38-39) (Who gets it?)
2. Ward/Pucovski (Warner has said he will retire after the next Ashes IF he even makes it that far, his career seems to be on borrowed time and he'll be 38/39 as well - Pucovski is my preferred choice out of all contenders but you know, strong doubts on his career)
3. Labushagne (31) (Legend of Australian cricket by this time)
4. Hardie/Phillippe/Wylie/Clayton/Fraser-McGurk (unlikely)/some unknown player (Smith might be still going but he will be 36/37 by this stage and I suspect Phillippe will get a shot at some point but not sure where or when)
5. Head/Phillippe (not out of the question someone else will be here)
6. Green (He will be a mainstay but might be up the order at 4 or 5 and if he is, there could be an argument for Hardie here)
7. Inglis (Carey will be 34/35 here but I don't know, I just don't rate Carey but Inglis certainly isn't doing much to inspire confidence here)
8. Sutherland (Starc will be 35/36 here and so this is my wild stab because I really rate this guy, he bowls a heavy ball and is getting better and better with the bat)
9. Cummins (He will be 32/33 here and wonder if his body will hold up but safe chance he is still going)
10. Richardson (This is a no brainer based on ability but will his body hold up? Big question marks here - failing that though there are some other decent pacies around that will still be ok age wise here like Steketee, Paris even, possibly Hazlewood is still going but also guys like McClure/Meredith/Bartlett/Agar might have come on by this stage)
11. Murphy (Look I want to pick T.Sangha here and he may well be in this spot by then, I really hope he is but a stress fracture putting you out for a whole season is not a good sign for a young guy and Murphy is putting together a very good resume, he looks like Lyon when he bowls)

Thoughts?

 

[The True King]

See above.

I never saw Pollock so can't comment on him. I wouldn't put Bond near an all time XI, way too injury prone.

Very keen to see how Marnus goes over in the sub-continent and that will go a long way to defining where he ranks against the likes of Hussey, Ponting, Clarke, Waugh, Smith, Chappell, etc. He's also going to face a big test against the South African quicks this summer.

Where he ultimately stacks up will also depend on what sort of elite bowlers emerge over the next few years. One thing Smith will always have in his favour is that he faced guys like Anderson, Broad, Herath, Shah, Jadeja, Ashwin, Steyn, Morkel, Philander and co., most of them in their primes.

Yet to be seen if Jamieson, Jansen, Patel, Robinson, Ngidi, Patel and others can build those sort of legacies.

 

[1910]

Yeah sure if you ignore most of the points, you come to this conclusion. You know who is in arguments for my all time top three XIs, Shane Bond and he played 18 tests. Guess who is often put in the best test XIs of all time, including Richie Benaud's, Graeme Pollock. Guess how many tests he played - 23.

Pollock played more "Tests" but they don't count because SA was banished. Pollock is an exception. People judge him on what he showed but your country being banned for nearly all your career isn't going to come up too much.

Very limited the people that can talk or include Pollock in best of teams.

 

[1910]

Longevity is a major part of being the best- Labuschagne has had a great four years but some of the great players like Ponting were great 17 years.

Ponting had 71 International 100's across two formats and Labuschagne has 11. He has a long way to go.

 

[Battler]

Well I am waiting for my next meeting in 15 minutes, so thought I'd do another list, what do you guys reckon about this for the test side in three years' time:

1. Renshaw/Hunt/Chandrasinghe (Khawaja will be like 38-39) (Who gets it?)
2. Ward/Pucovski (Warner has said he will retire after the next Ashes IF he even makes it that far, his career seems to be on borrowed time and he'll be 38/39 as well - Pucovski is my preferred choice out of all contenders but you know, strong doubts on his career)
3. Labushagne (31) (Legend of Australian cricket by this time)
4. Hardie/Phillippe/Wylie/Clayton/Fraser-McGurk (unlikely)/some unknown player (Smith might be still going but he will be 36/37 by this stage and I suspect Phillippe will get a shot at some point but not sure where or when)
5. Head/Phillippe (not out of the question someone else will be here)
6. Green (He will be a mainstay but might be up the order at 4 or 5 and if he is, there could be an argument for Hardie here)
7. Inglis (Carey will be 34/35 here but I don't know, I just don't rate Carey but Inglis certainly isn't doing much to inspire confidence here)
8. Sutherland (Starc will be 35/36 here and so this is my wild stab because I really rate this guy, he bowls a heavy ball and is getting better and better with the bat)
9. Cummins (He will be 32/33 here and wonder if his body will hold up but safe chance he is still going)
10. Richardson (This is a no brainer based on ability but will his body hold up? Big question marks here - failing that though there are some other decent pacies around that will still be ok age wise here like Steketee, Paris even, possibly Hazlewood is still going but also guys like McClure/Meredith/Bartlett/Agar might have come on by this stage)
11. Murphy (Look I want to pick T.Sangha here and he may well be in this spot by then, I really hope he is but a stress fracture putting you out for a whole season is not a good sign for a young guy and Murphy is putting together a very good resume, he looks like Lyon when he bowls)

Thoughts?

Not saying you’re wrong, but gee whiz that batting lineup is a massive step down from what we have rn. I’m praying Puvoski comes good and Wyllie + Chandra kick on.

 

[Sproj]

150 with a beautiful punch for Head.

 

[Sproj]

150 for Labs!

 

[Sproj]

Goodness, Head brings up his best score with another of those exquisite drives.