State Of Origin - General Discussion

[Sproj]

So Qld are ahead in metres gained and offloads...yet they have lost both games fairly comfortably. Tells you the spine is not doing its job that well.

 

[Huge]

So Qld are ahead in metres gained and offloads...yet they have lost both games fairly comfortably. Tells you the spine is not doing its job that well.

Fairly comfortably? Huh ?
I could have sworn game two came down to the last few minutes and there was less than a converted try in the end result. Jesus, what blindness results from agendas.

 

[Dash]

So Qld are ahead in metres gained and offloads...yet they have lost both games fairly comfortably. Tells you the spine is not doing its job that well.

We only lost Game 2 because of missed conversions. It was 3 tries each. One of their's was gifted to them and one of our's was robbed. Not sure that qualifies as a comfortable loss.

 

[Sproj]

Meh, Qld never really looked like winning regardless in either game. Those moments are where your spine should be taking the game by the scruff of the neck. And again, at this level, 200 more metres and offloads should mean victory or at least a level series.

It's like the Ashes in England a few years ago, Australia had better averages, more hundreds and lower runs per wicket and somehow comfortably lost 3-1 or something. Came down to the side not taking the key moments, in league, that comes down to your spine.

 

[Browny]

I was expecting us to get smashed given the injuries and legends jumping ship. The fact we were in it for most of both games bodes well for next year

 

[Sproj]

I was expecting us to get smashed given the injuries and legends jumping ship. The fact we were in it for most of both games bodes well for next year

Only if one or two of Milford and Taylor / another undiscovered young gun emerges. Yes, I know, I'm going to get labelled as negative, etc but it doesn't change the truth.

The difference between this side this year and last year is the spine. The rest of the side is pretty much the same. Yes, NSW has finally chosen the right side but you can't expect to replace four legends in the spine positions and expect instant success.

1. Slater -> Ponga (looks ok on paper, let's see once teams start to work him out)
6. Thurston -> Milford / Munster / Norman / doesn't matter (this is a huge loss)
7. Cronk -> DCE / Hunt / Taylor (None of these are even close to Cronk at present, Taylor may get there but he's still a long way away for now)
9. Smith -> Macca (Ouch, this one seriously hurts. Smith is still the best 9 in the game, let alone best ever, huge loss, irreplaceable, particularly given Cook's emergence on the other side. Until a better 9 comes along, Qld are in for a few lean years, hopefully not Pearce-esque though. Nothing against Macca, he gives absolutely more than everything he has every single game, just everything he has is never going to be anywhere near Smith level, no shame in that)

 

[1910]

Another insight into why maybe forwards aren't having an impact making ground that they normally would. A lot of ball movement.

Game two had 486 passes in comparison to the GB v NZ Test that had 404 passes.

 

[Porthoz]

I don't get this Walters bashing. Outside of the shocking amount of missed tackles in the first game, the team performed quite well, especially in game 2, despite the mounting successive adversities with injuries, legends quitting, and lacking a capable game controlling half.
We could have easily been 1 all with a home game in hand despite all of the above!

In general, both sides' packs have annulled each other, resulting in very low meters gained from either of them, while the large differential came from the backs and clearly favoured Qld, which is also probably a reason why our forwards didn't need to cart the ball as much.

I do agree some selections have certainly been questionable. I did understand Oates missing out originally given the presence of Gagai, Holmes, Chambers and Inglis, but why Ofahengaue isn't an option, or how Milford became a victim of his misuse in game 1, but I understand and agree with Hunt being the bench utility (of course I do hate the sight of DCE in the maroon jersey), but selections are not Kevvie's exclusive responsibility, and it's not like there is a wealth of choices out there either...

 

[Number6]

Why did he have limited game time? Now i dont pretend to know walters pitiful game plan ideas but dont you think if he was doing his role so well and he was responsible/helping us stay on top of the nsw blues pack as you say they wouldnt have put him back on? Even walters isnt that bad a coach.

He is the worst starting prop we have had in our history. I thought he was close too it before origin and he has more then confirmed it with his performances. He is possibly the most over rated forward in the nrl. Jarrod “im a starting origin prop worth >$500,000 a season” wallace does not deserve to wear the same jersey webcke and ciovoniceva wore with such pride and passion.

Im sick of these titans players getting such raving reviews from people on here just because they used to play for us, LOOK AT THE NRL TABLE. They dont play for us anymore because hey are not worth the money they are getting paid, if they were titans would be ahead of us on the nrl tavle every year, they arent and have never been since they started paying overs for our players...

Rant over...

Not really a fair statement. A couple of players can’t fix a whole team of deficiencies. Arrow, Taylor and Wallace would all be first grade at full strength Broncs.

1. Milf
2. Oates
3. Roberts
4. Boyd
5. Kahu
6. Bird
7. Taylor
8. Wallace
9. Macca
10. Lodge
11. TPJ
12. Gillo
13. Arrow
14. Knik
15. McGuire
16. Sua
17. Offa
18.Glenn
19. Isaako

That team is premiership favourites. F*** the salary cap rewarding mediocrity.

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

Not really a fair statement. A couple of players can’t fix a whole team of deficiencies. Arrow, Taylor and Wallace would all be first grade at full strength Broncs.

1. Milf
2. Oates
3. Roberts
4. Boyd
5. Kahu
6. Bird
7. Taylor
8. Wallace
9. Macca
10. Lodge
11. TPJ
12. Gillo
13. Arrow
14. Knik
15. McGuire
16. Sua
17. Offa
18.Glenn
19. Isaako

That team is premiership favourites. F*** the salary cap rewarding mediocrity.

Theres 5 ex broncos in the titans. 2 of which are their highest paid players, indicating they would have some kind of influence on outcomes. It is a fair statement. Theyve also changed coaches and have a good forward pack surrounding them, so whats the new excuse for them all?

Additionally, youd put mcguire on the bench? The current australian lock and last years state of origin player of the series based on 12 games by arrow. Yet youve chosen kahu ahead of isaako because im guessing kahu has more runs on the board and wouldnt judge a player based on half a good season (unless that half a good season isnt for the broncos of course, owe the irony...)? Why is it that once players leave the broncos 5 or 6 good games suddenly become worth more then 5-6 great seasons and state player of the year awards?

And also with wallace ahead of him? Surely you made an error there? Imagine if we needed wallace to stand up to fifita last year lol...

 

[Number6]

I don't get this Walters bashing. Outside of the shocking amount of missed tackles in the first game, the team performed quite well, especially in game 2, despite the mounting successive adversities with injuries, legends quitting, and lacking a capable game controlling half.
We could have easily been 1 all with a home game in hand despite all of the above!

In general, both sides' packs have annulled each other, resulting in very low meters gained from either of them, while the large differential came from the backs and clearly favoured Qld, which is also probably a reason why our forwards didn't need to cart the ball as much.

I do agree some selections have certainly been questionable. I did understand Oates missing out originally given the presence of Gagai, Holmes, Chambers and Inglis, but why Ofahengaue isn't an option, or how Milford became a victim of his misuse in game 1, but I understand and agree with Hunt being the bench utility (of course I do hate the sight of DCE in the maroon jersey), but selections are not Kevvie's exclusive responsibility, and it's not like there is a wealth of choices out there either...

Agree may not just be Kevvie but selectors sh*t the bed badly this year. Yes not a lot of options but need to remember how to do best with what is available and lift toilers to 10ft tall in the QLD jersey. Did well to get in potentially winnable positions but sh*t the bed in key moments which was not only foreseeable but more likely than not with the 6, 7, 9 combo selected. Then have perfect opportunity to blood for future in a dead rubber and decide now is the time not to take risks and risk ruining the culture with DC Pearce... Time not to take risks at selection table was before some genius said hey ‘Hunt is a big game halfback right? He played a GF ok for 75 minutes.’ And ‘Macca isn’t the worst attacking hooker in NRL right?’ Followed by ‘you know what this terrible combo needs - a running 5/8 no one really needs to kick or organise right...’.

QRL will have to review. Not saying need to have a reactionary change selectors but need to look the thinking and processes to learn. Had luxury for such a long time need to get back to the strategies that kept QLD going for so long before once in a lifetime group of immortals.

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

I don't get this Walters bashing. Outside of the shocking amount of missed tackles in the first game, the team performed quite well, especially in game 2, despite the mounting successive adversities with injuries, legends quitting, and lacking a capable game controlling half.
We could have easily been 1 all with a home game in hand despite all of the above!

In general, both sides' packs have annulled each other, resulting in very low meters gained from either of them, while the large differential came from the backs and clearly favoured Qld, which is also probably a reason why our forwards didn't need to cart the ball as much.

I do agree some selections have certainly been questionable. I did understand Oates missing out originally given the presence of Gagai, Holmes, Chambers and Inglis, but why Ofahengaue isn't an option, or how Milford became a victim of his misuse in game 1, but I understand and agree with Hunt being the bench utility (of course I do hate the sight of DCE in the maroon jersey), but selections are not Kevvie's exclusive responsibility, and it's not like there is a wealth of choices out there either...

After the game 1 loss last year it “leaked” to the media that it wasnt walters team. He collected all the plaudits for all his amazing selcetions after that. The only thing that truly changed was c smith decided to play in the 2nd and 3rd games because he got his mates selected, if he wants to truly win an origin game there isnt too much in the way. They were half/half selections like last year this year but because we got away with a series win he looked like a genius. Its obvious this year was following the same selcetion ideas- loyalty only counts sometimes with no real plan for the future. Based on this years series are we any closer to knowing what the team will look like in 5 years? If we won the series then who cares but if gavin cooper and coen hess are in your squad based on this years form, you arent winning the series so at least get us a head start for future series.

And this- “we were so close” stuff is what nsw have said.... for 12 years..... every origin game will be close due to sheer desire, winning is so close yet so far for poor teams in origin.

Walters has won the last 2 series and this series is already over yet the team hasnt really changed? You dont think he would get more of a go if it easnt his team and the series was already over? Its obvious its his team.

If, and this is a big if, walters didnt have much of a say in selections though i actually think thats worse for him. Surely after signing a new contract and winning 2 series he has the ability/strength to select his own team. For me, this further highlights is inability to coach at nrl level...

 

[Porthoz]

After the game 1 loss last year it “leaked” to the media that it wasnt walters team. He collected all the plaudits for all his amazing selcetions after that. The only thing that truly changed was c smith decided to play in the 2nd and 3rd games because he got his mates selected, if he wants to truly win an origin game there isnt too much in the way. They were half/half selections like last year this year but because we got away with a series win he looked like a genius. Its obvious this year was following the same selcetion ideas- loyalty only counts sometimes with no real plan for the future. Based on this years series are we any closer to knowing what the team will look like in 5 years? If we won the series then who cares but if gavin cooper and coen hess are in your squad based on this years form, you arent winning the series so at least get us a head start for future series.

And this- “we were so close” stuff is what nsw have said.... for 12 years..... every origin game will be close due to sheer desire, winning is so close yet so far for poor teams in origin.

Walters has won the last 2 series and this series is already over yet the team hasnt really changed? You dont think he would get more of a go if it easnt his team and the series was already over? Its obvious its his team.

If, and this is a big if, walters didnt have much of a say in selections though i actually think thats worse for him. Surely after signing a new contract and winning 2 series he has the ability/strength to select his own team. For me, this further highlights is inability to coach at nrl level...

So Walters is not a genius for winning 2 series while renewing the legendary team that won 11 out of 12 series, but is a flog for losing one where players kept dropping like flies? Gotcha.

Difference between 2016 and this year: No Cooper Cronk, Cameron Smith, Johnathan Thurston, Nate Myles, Matt Scott, Darius Boyd, Matt Gillett, Corey Parker and Sam Thaiday. Peanuts, right?
Besides, based on this year's form, we'd have almost no players to select from, and the player who appeared to be in best form, was the one who shat the bed the worst...
This is not a "we were so close", it's a "considering the circumstances, we definitely did very well to get so close".

BTW, while Gavin Cooper isn't the future, he certainly was good enough to be there this year, and it definitely wasn't for him that we lost the series.

As to the future... I think we definitely do have a core group.

Ponga, Holmes, Gagai, Morgan, Munster, are close to certainties in the backs when fit, with Oates as a luxury backup. Inglis will probably not last much longer, despite wanting to go a few more years.

Let's see what that creep of a DCE does, but we still have Milford and Taylor on the sidelines, who I still regard as our future halves, and Hunt can well become a fantastic utility to give us the spark we lack from Macca, who may be our Achilles heel in terms of attack.

Despite his miserable form this season, Coen Hess definitely belongs in the forwards mix, as do Arrow, Kaufusi, Napa and Wallace, alongside established players like McGuire, Gillett and Papalii. The fact we're turning to someone like Glasby as a backup and pinning our hopes on guys like Ofahegaue and Su'a, who have just arrived on the scene, is telling of how bare the cupboard is.

Of course, injuries and other issues are no excuse for a Walters, but sure work for Bennett... right?

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

So Walters is not a genius for winning 2 series while renewing the legendary team that won 11 out of 12 series, but is a flog for losing one where players kept dropping like flies? Gotcha.

Difference between 2016 and this year: No Cooper Cronk, Cameron Smith, Johnathan Thurston, Nate Myles, Matt Scott, Darius Boyd, Matt Gillett, Corey Parker and Sam Thaiday. Peanuts, right?
Besides, based on this year's form, we'd have almost no players to select from, and the player who appeared to be in best form, was the one who shat the bed the worst...
This is not a "we were so close", it's a "considering the circumstances, we definitely did very well to get so close".

BTW, while Gavin Cooper isn't the future, he certainly was good enough to be there this year, and it definitely wasn't for him that we lost the series.

As to the future... I think we definitely do have a core group.

Ponga, Holmes, Gagai, Morgan, Munster, are close to certainties in the backs when fit, with Oates as a luxury backup. Inglis will probably not last much longer, despite wanting to go a few more years.

Let's see what that creep of a DCE does, but we still have Milford and Taylor on the sidelines, who I still regard as our future halves, and Hunt can well become a fantastic utility to give us the spark we lack from Macca, who may be our Achilles heel in terms of attack.

Despite his miserable form this season, Coen Hess definitely belongs in the forwards mix, as do Arrow, Kaufusi, Napa and Wallace, alongside established players like McGuire, Gillett and Papalii. The fact we're turning to someone like Glasby as a backup and pinning our hopes on guys like Ofahegaue and Su'a, who have just arrived on the scene, is telling of how bare the cupboard is.

Of course, injuries and other issues are no excuse for a Walters, but sure work for Bennett... right?

I could name 4 or 5 players that are in better form then cooper like I have on multiple occaissons on here. Difference between them and him is he is 31. So poor form and age isnt the criteria so he must have more runs on the board at origin level then scott, boyd and thaiday because they were the reasons they got sacked. Cooper deserves our leeway but those players who have and would get the job done to a higher level dont? Whats he trying to achieve with those choices, its a half ass attempt at trying to look like he is looking to the future. Hunt was our future at the start of the series I believe and whilst I agree with his demotion im also not the coach who picked him in the first place and publicly backed him as our future.

The difference in coaches this year is fittler has had a way he wants to play and a style of player he wants and he has stuck to it. Just like meninga did. Meninga valued experience over everything else. Fittler has valued attitude and offensive based players. What does our team stand for?could you honestly tell me it has any sort of pattern whatsoever?

Those players we lost, do you not realise WALTERS DROPPED some of them. If he wants to use a loss of experience as an excuse he has no one to blame but himself.

And what positions will those players play in the backline? Do they know? Munster wants to be a fullback and probably will once slater retires. Ponga had a great debut... from the bench. Holmes wants to be our fullback too. Gagai cant defend at centre everyone rightfully points out, morgan has had 10 games in origin and hasnt exactly dominated at any stange whatsoever. Milford should be our future but wont be whilst walters is coach because of the way walters has thrown him under the bus.

Hess has been terrible, he may turn out great but just becasue someone is young you dont just keep them in the team despite their form. It may mean 10 years of shitness rather then just cutting your losses, and again, if thats walters plan why werent more youngsters chosen? Its so half asses the way he has approached this series its ridiculous. Its a shambles.

Yes he deserves credit for the last 2 years, i never said he didnt completly but blind freddy could see smith made hin look good. The same criticisms will be directed at bellamy if it proves to be true for him. And injuries are terrible, they happen, every coach at some point had to deal with them. But the players he had available still dont justify HIS selections. Wallace shouldnt wear a quernsland jersey again, no matter his form. People are forgettih that before we were blessed with the golden run our teams in the 90’s and early 2000’s were massively inferior to nsw in personel and won due to effort aline sometimes. You cant tell me wallace deserves to be wearjng the same jersey as them

 

[Morkel]

Walters is doing a good job. I don't want him coaching the Broncos, but he's done well for Queensland considering the circumstances.

 

[Sproj]

I actually think amongst both your arguments there, you have summed up the situation really well.

The key points are that some selections were really poor, there is no clear identity for what the team wants to be, Walters does deserve credit for the last two years but also deserves criticism this year, Smith makes every coach look better, the cupboard is bare and Qld needs a better 9 than Macca to become better, and that is absolutely no slight on his effort whatsoever.

 

[Huge]

Agree may not just be Kevvie but selectors sh*t the bed badly this year. Yes not a lot of options but need to remember how to do best with what is available and lift toilers to 10ft tall in the QLD jersey. Did well to get in potentially winnable positions but sh*t the bed in key moments which was not only foreseeable but more likely than not with the 6, 7, 9 combo selected. Then have perfect opportunity to blood for future in a dead rubber and decide now is the time not to take risks and risk ruining the culture with DC Pearce... Time not to take risks at selection table was before some genius said hey ‘Hunt is a big game halfback right? He played a GF ok for 75 minutes.’ And ‘Macca isn’t the worst attacking hooker in NRL right?’ Followed by ‘you know what this terrible combo needs - a running 5/8 no one really needs to kick or organise right...’.

QRL will have to review. Not saying need to have a reactionary change selectors but need to look the thinking and processes to learn. Had luxury for such a long time need to get back to the strategies that kept QLD going for so long before once in a lifetime group of immortals.

Is this a new kind of English ? Omit all the little annoying linking words seems to be the plan. Makes reading very unpleasant you know !

 

[Sproj]

Is this a new kind of English ? Omit all the little annoying linking words seems to be the plan. Makes reading very unpleasant you know !

Like putting spaces between words and punctuation?