The Wayne Bennett Super thread!

[Big Pete]

Rugby League Annual 2002.

It covers all the events of 2001, has some interesting tidbits that I'd forgotten about such as Newcastle sending a report to the judiciary to ensure that Tallis was suspended for three weeks, Lockyer was fined $200 by NZ Customs for having muddy football boots and he was assaulted at Dell's wedding.

 

[Big Pete]

It's out of print unfortunately, may need to place some bids on ebay.

Well worth it though - fantastic resource which improves with age.

 

[CaptainHook]

I remember Union being interested in Lockyer. I think it was a beat up mostly. There was never a sense that he was really leaving Brisbane.

As for Bellamy and Bennett I find it bizarre that people can give one a wrap and not the other for the same reason. It's bonkers.

Talking about the great players they've coached. Both of them have proven they can take rookies and turn them into superstars. Lockyer, Langer etc for WB and Smith, Slater and Cronk for CB. None of them would be the players they are/were without their coaches, IMO.

Bennett is a better coach than Bellamy in that he's had more experience and has proven he has the ability to regenerate a side after great players have retired or left the club. That test for Bellamy is coming soon but I have a feeling he will leave the Storm once those three are gone. I predict he will go to another club or retire from coaching altogether.

Looking back over the Bennett era, the amount of premierships we'd blown under WB is about as many as we've won if not more. I think it's one of the few cases where our great finals record hid a lot of problems.

 

[Anonymous person]

there was as much chance of lockyer going to union as there was andrew johns going - none whatsoever.

i expect bellamy to retire at the end of his contract, which is i think 3 years away? people will say its because he'll never win without slater/smith/cronk and he doesnt want to get shown up, but in reality the guy will be nearly 60 and is entitled to retirement, especially after all that he has been through with the salary cap drama. the fact that its when the big 3 will possibly be hanging up their boots is purely a coincidence.

 

[1910]

I remember Union being interested in Lockyer. I think it was a beat up mostly. There was never a sense that he was really leaving Brisbane.

As for Bellamy and Bennett I find it bizarre that people can give one a wrap and not the other for the same reason. It's bonkers.

Talking about the great players they've coached. Both of them have proven they can take rookies and turn them into superstars. Lockyer, Langer etc for WB and Smith, Slater and Cronk for CB. None of them would be the players they are/were without their coaches, IMO.

Bennett is a better coach than Bellamy in that he's had more experience and has proven he has the ability to regenerate a side after great players have retired or left the club. That test for Bellamy is coming soon but I have a feeling he will leave the Storm once those three are gone. I predict he will go to another club or retire from coaching altogether.

Looking back over the Bennett era, the amount of premierships we'd blown under WB is about as many as we've won if not more. I think it's one of the few cases where our great finals record hid a lot of problems.

Alf was playing first grade and Origin before he was coached by Bennett.

 

[CaptainHook]

Alf was playing first grade and Origin before he was coached by Bennett.

He made his Origin debut in 1987 with Bennett as coach. It was a hugely controversial selection to say the least. It's all academic now as he and the King guided Queensland to a memorable series win. Our first in three years.

Alfie was a such a remarkably consistent footballer. I credit Bennett with making him captain with having a huge impact on his development. All through the first decade of the Broncos, no one played better week in, week out.

 

[CaptainHook]

i expect bellamy to retire at the end of his contract, which is i think 3 years away? people will say its because he'll never win without slater/smith/cronk and he doesnt want to get shown up, but in reality the guy will be nearly 60 and is entitled to retirement, especially after all that he has been through with the salary cap drama. the fact that its when the big 3 will possibly be hanging up their boots is purely a coincidence.

I tend to agree, anonymous person. Great points all of them that are tough to argue with. I would just add that I've always thought as well with Bellamy's meticulous attention to detail and intensity in his coaching style meant he would be here for a good time not a long time. I tend to think as well he seems driven by different goals than Bennett. For example, I think WB really wanted to prove he could win a premiership away from Brisbane. I don't think that sort of thing fazes CB all that much.

 

[1910]

He made his Origin debut in 1987 with Bennett as coach. It was a hugely controversial selection to say the least. It's all academic now as he and the King guided Queensland to a memorable series win. Our first in three years.

Alfie was a such a remarkably consistent footballer. I credit Bennett with making him captain with having a huge impact on his development. All through the first decade of the Broncos, no one played better week in, week out.

None of that is relevant, you claimed Bennett took him from nothing to superstar- he was an Origin player when he came to the Broncos.

Tommy took him from nobody to superstar.

 

[OXY-351]

i expect bellamy to retire at the end of his contract, which is i think 3 years away? people will say its because he'll never win without slater/smith/cronk and he doesnt want to get shown up, but in reality the guy will be nearly 60 and is entitled to retirement, especially after all that he has been through with the salary cap drama. the fact that its when the big 3 will possibly be hanging up their boots is purely a coincidence.

For sure, he's entitled to retire then and he has acheived a lot, but if he does imo he then loses the chance be classed in the same league as someone like Bennett. Bellamy has built a great team over the past decade, but he's only done it once. Bennett has done it 3, maybe 4, times. I honestly think Bellamy has the potential to do it again post the big 3, but if he retires then it would only be pure speculation that he could have. Wayne Bennett has, and he could have quit coaching when some of his big name broncos retired too.

 

[CaptainHook]

Tommy took him from nobody to superstar.

Let's just agree to disagree, 1910. In my opinion, he would not have been as successful without Bennett's influence.

Your final point is interesting. Who else did Tommy take form nobody to superstardom? With Bennett, that list would be as long as your arm.

 

[1910]

Let's just agree to disagree, 1910. In my opinion, he would not have been as successful without Bennett's influence.

Your final point is interesting. Who else did Tommy take form nobody to superstardom? With Bennett, that list would be as long as your arm.

Again that is not relevant, how many they produced has nothing to do with your point. You made an error about Alf's career.

 

[Anonymous person]

Bellamy has built a great team over the past decade, but he's only done it once. Bennett has done it 3, maybe 4, times.

when has bennett done it 3 or 4 times? when didnt bennett have at least 1 of Langer/Lockyer/Tallis in his team, combined with at least 4-5 other top line players like hodges/webcke/civoniceva/priddis/etc in the team at all times?

he always had a constant stream of excellent players to go with his "best in the league" player/s. when he didnt, post 2000-ish, is when his number of premierships went from 5 in 13 years to 1 in the next 10. he never really rebuilt the broncos. they had alfie for over a decade, walters remained after he left, lockyer was already well on his way to being a superstar, and by the time walters left lockyer was already one of the best in the game. when bennett left, he left us with a pretty average roster of which we are still feeling the effects.

he never had his 3 best players retire at once, not even once, let alone 3 or 4 times like you suggest.

 

[OXY-351]

when has bennett done it 3 or 4 times? when didnt bennett have at least 1 of Langer/Lockyer/Tallis in his team, combined with at least 4-5 other top line players like hodges/webcke/civoniceva/priddis/etc in the team at all times?

he always had a constant stream of excellent players to go with his "best in the league" player/s. when he didnt, post 2000-ish, is when his number of premierships went from 5 in 13 years to 1 in the next 10. he never really rebuilt the broncos. they had alfie for over a decade, walters remained after he left, lockyer was already well on his way to being a superstar, and by the time walters left lockyer was already one of the best in the game. when bennett left, he left us with a pretty average roster of which we are still feeling the effects.

he never had his 3 best players retire at once, not even once, let alone 3 or 4 times like you suggest.

Early 90s
Late 90s/2000
2006
2010 with the dragons.

You can argue all you like about the reasons why, but the fact is he won premierships around those times with significantly different players.

I'm not arguing that he didn't have some great players at his disposal during those times. He did, but do you think it's purely a coincidence that he did and that it has nothing to do with his abilities as a coach? He more often that not had players coming through the ranks to fill the void when his stars retired. If that's not rebuilding, then we must have significantly different views on what is. Has Bellamy got the same succession plans in place, or is it just easier for him to retire than try and find the next cronk/slater/smith like Bennett did with langer/lockyer/talllis.

You're arguing that Bennett didn't do very well when he lost his stars, which is arguable anyway, but regardless Bellamy hasn't even had the chance to prove what he'd be like without the big 3. Bellamy has only won one premiership in the past 10 years with players of the calibre of cronk/slater/smith in his team. That's not a great record when compared to what Bennett teams have done in even that time, let alone the period prior when he had similar calibre players in his team.

I hope Bellamy does rebuild the storms I rate him as a coach, but at this stage, Bennett has far more runs on the board than Bellamy when it comes to coaching greatness.

 

[Anonymous person]

bellamy won 3 premierships actually, 2 of which were then stripped. you cant say he only won 1 premiership in 10 years, its clearly not true. they won 3 - 2 of which were then stripped.

for your 4 "rebuilding" periods - care to elaborate on them? what "rebuilding" did he do in 2006? or 2000? in 2000 when he had lockyer, tallis, walters, civoniceva, webcke, sailor and co who had all been there for years, that was *rebuilding*?!

"rebuilding" is taking a team with nothing and turning them into a premiership force. rebuilding is what parramatta are trying to do. what the panthers are doing. having a team with a constant 7+ veteran current rep players and bringing in new players to play around them isnt "rebuilding".

and lol at bennett "finding" tallis. tallis was a very good player and had played with st george for 4 years before he came to the broncos.

and dont even try and compare the melbourne team of late to the broncos of old. the 1998/2000 broncos teams were so far ahead of everyone else its not funny. even with the salary cap cheating the storm were still really only the big 3 and then some minor supporting cast. the broncos teams of the late 90s were almost literally the entire QLD team. the squad the broncos got to assemble for super league and the next few years was just ridiculous. they shouldve won MORE premierships than they did.

 

[subsbligh]

So what you're saying is, we should re-open the Bellamy versus Bennett debate, because BHQ isn't already completely aware of your immutable position in that debate.

Should be fun.

 

[Anonymous person]

So what you're saying is, we should re-open the Bellamy versus Bennett debate, because BHQ isn't already completely aware of your immutable position in that debate.

Should be fun.

how about if you dont want to join in the DISCUSSION - which is what we're having - then you dont post in the thread? what right do you have to tell us that we cant talk about something that is well within the rules and in the appropriate thread?

noones being called names, noones being offended, so whats your problem?

 

[subsbligh]

I think it should be banned from the forum because it's been done ad-nauseum.

Every thread on regarding the "best of" anything in Rugby League over the past 20 years always falls to the lowest common denominator of Bellamy versus Bennett.

You think Bellamy is the greatest coach of the modern era (or maybe ever). Some disagree. We all get it.

Close thread.

 

[Broncoman]

when bennett left, he left us with a pretty average roster of which we are still feeling the effects.

I disagree that he left us with an average roster we still had the majority of the 2008 squad in 2009 and had some promising youngsters coming through the ranks.

Broncos team round 1 2009

1: Kharmichael Hunt
2: Antonio Winterstein
3: Steve Michaels
4: Israel Folau
5: Jharal Yow Yeh
6: Darren Lockyer
7: Peter Wallace
8: Nick Kenny
9: Aaron Gorrel
10: Joel Clinton
11: Sam Thiaday
12: Ben Teo
13: Corey Parker

14: Alex Glenn
15: Andrew McCullough
16: Lagi Setu
16: Dave Taylor