Would you take David Fifita back?

[Morepudding]

I’d take him for sub $800k. He is still the most dangerous second rower in the comp. Move Riki to the bench as a middle or **** him off. Fifita one edge and Capewell on the other? Yes please.

 

[Dash]

We're desperate for some kind of threat in the backrow, so I'm a yes, at a reasonable price. $700k, $750k, $800k over 3 years would be good value I think.

 

[Santa]

I’d take him for sub $800k. He is still the most dangerous second rower in the comp. Move Riki to the bench as a middle or **** him off. Fifita one edge and Capewell on the other? Yes please.

You reckon Fifita could last a whole game these days?

 

[theshed]

I’m further warming to the idea.

I personally feel that if you look at our best 17, the 2 weakest areas are Hooker and Second row. We have Mozer coming through so it really only leaves second row. Unfortunately, and this is probably premature as the season is about to start, I have given up on Riki. He doesn’t have the instinct for the game. He makes some really appalling reads in defence and doesn’t attack with any intelligence. Between him dropping the ball cold and leaving huge holes in defence, I think he’s one of our weakest links. Like Niu’s flashy moments, Riki’s has moments in defence that will patch over the bigger issues to some fans. Riki can go to the bench and cover the loss of Flegler as a middle imo.

Rather than put a number or what I would pay Fifita, I will instead say that I would sign him if the following conditions are met;

1. Enough cap space remains to retain and upgrade the rest of the team (eg Walsh, Mam, Patty, Mozer, Haas, etc)
2. Enough cap space remains to sign a marque halfback post Reynolds
3. Enough remains to re-sign Marty or another experienced bench middle
4. Enough to sign a cheapish experienced back and sure up depth in other positions

 

[007]

Dobbo is really stretching the narrative. Not a word been issue by the club and hes already saying the club is in contract talks

 

[ChewThePhatt]

I was a hard no.
I'm softening to the idea now though.
As long as @theshed has his 4 criteria met & it's still less than $800k, he's worth the risk.
He's obviously full of talent, it's still his attitude that concerns me though.

 

[1910]

Fifita and Kikau are a good comparison, one gets used well- did anyway remains to be seen if the Dogs are the same.

Fifita should be playing the Kikau role but for him to do that he needs a half and forwards to do the work in the middle so he doesn't have to come in and do it. Penrith sets are so well done that Kikau just lurks around and takes damaging runs.

Kikau has only averaged more than 100m a year three times over his six years. It's the sort of work you want them doing but you have to be a smart organised team to do it.

 

[theshed]

Fifita and Kikau are a good comparison, one gets used well- did anyway remains to be seen if the Dogs are the same.

Fifita should be playing the Kikau role but for him to do that he needs a half and forwards to do the work in the middle so he doesn't have to come in and do it. Penrith sets are so well done that Kikau just lurks around and takes damaging runs.

Kikau has only averaged more than 100m a year three times over his six years. It's the sort of work you want them doing but you have to be a smart organised team to do it.

Yeah, if you consider our backs Oates, Cobbo, Herbie, and (to a lesser extent) Staggs are all massive metre makers, its a shame we haven’t better replicated the Penrith model.

All sets from kick returns should be as an example, Oates hit up, Herbie hit up, Staggs hit up, Cobbo hit up, Reynolds massive kick from halfway. Allowing our forwards to focus on defence and ball playing, damaging runs in the attacking zone.

Our backs are capable of running 150+m a game easy.

 

[broncoscope]

I'm a solid yes for Fifita to come back home. I really don't think we'll get him for under 800 k but at the end of the day he's a potential match winner on the edge. Currently we have two second rowers that are basicly plodders, so I think Riki could move to the bench or we can move Capewell to lock and Carrigan to front row.
Would be a pretty balanced
line-up. But definitely don't give him crazy money, time for him to earn his wage..

 

[BroncsFan]

Yeah, if you consider our backs Oates, Cobbo, Herbie, and (to a lesser extent) Staggs are all massive metre makers, its a shame we haven’t better replicated the Penrith model.

All sets from kick returns should be as an example, Oates hit up, Herbie hit up, Staggs hit up, Cobbo hit up, Reynolds massive kick from halfway. Allowing our forwards to focus on defence and ball playing, damaging runs in the attacking zone.

Our backs are capable of running 150+m a game easy.

This is true, but Haas and Carrigan are basically workhorse meter eating props... are we getting the best out of them if we start playing to backs on get out sets?

Oates and Herbie basically take a hitup every set. With the fullback taking the kick return hitup that's 3 runs out of 5 taken up.

Where this deviates is on our kick off sets... it'll be Haas/Jensen 1st, then we usually go Riki, then Patty, then Haas takes a second one... then we might usually look for a kick.

Rorters will typically use Tupou on the 2nd carry after kick off... cant recall if the Panthers go outside backs on kick offs because I'm sure JFH and Leota take hitups there... and they'll usually do an early spread to the edge for Kikau (previously).

So I think in all we do use our backs on yardage sets, but we also look to utilise our big middles, because they're just plain good at it.

Patty will often generate a quick ptb... a lot of our good ball plays come off the back of a Patty run.

Haas not so much but he does get big yards every tackle... I'd like us to not use him before a kick though... would prefer Reyno kicks after a Patty run to be on the front foot

 

[theshed]

This is true, but Haas and Carrigan are basically workhorse meter eating props... are we getting the best out of them if we start playing to backs on get out sets?

Oates and Herbie basically take a hitup every set. With the fullback taking the kick return hitup that's 3 runs out of 5 taken up.

Where this deviates is on our kick off sets... it'll be Haas/Jensen 1st, then we usually go Riki, then Patty, then Haas takes a second one... then we might usually look for a kick.

Rorters will typically use Tupou on the 2nd carry after kick off... cant recall if the Panthers go outside backs on kick offs because I'm sure JFH and Leota take hitups there... and they'll usually do an early spread to the edge for Kikau (previously).

So I think in all we do use our backs on yardage sets, but we also look to utilise our big middles, because they're just plain good at it.

Patty will often generate a quick ptb... a lot of our good ball plays come off the back of a Patty run.

Haas not so much but he does get big yards every tackle... I'd like us to not use him before a kick though... would prefer Reyno kicks after a Patty run to be on the front foot

Valid points, I would just add that although they are workhorses is that as a result of the current game plan or is that their best attributes?

Patty has developed into a pretty good ball player, Haas could definitely be more explosive in attack if he cut back on his work rate in our end. It makes me think of Hindmarsh who was a pretty great attacking forward early on but due to his huge engine and useless team mates he was utilised basically as a workhorse tackler.

I feel as though part of JT13s minor resurgence in form has been due to Payton reducing his expected work rate.

 

[Big Del]

This is true, but Haas and Carrigan are basically workhorse meter eating props... are we getting the best out of them if we start playing to backs on get out sets?

Oates and Herbie basically take a hitup every set. With the fullback taking the kick return hitup that's 3 runs out of 5 taken up.

Where this deviates is on our kick off sets... it'll be Haas/Jensen 1st, then we usually go Riki, then Patty, then Haas takes a second one... then we might usually look for a kick.

Rorters will typically use Tupou on the 2nd carry after kick off... cant recall if the Panthers go outside backs on kick offs because I'm sure JFH and Leota take hitups there... and they'll usually do an early spread to the edge for Kikau (previously).

So I think in all we do use our backs on yardage sets, but we also look to utilise our big middles, because they're just plain good at it.

Patty will often generate a quick ptb... a lot of our good ball plays come off the back of a Patty run.

Haas not so much but he does get big yards every tackle... I'd like us to not use him before a kick though... would prefer Reyno kicks after a Patty run to be on the front foot

Dude ! Have you been watching the NRL the last 20 years ?

The forwards do SFA on kick returns . Its the back 5 who do the work in their own half . Forwards only carry the ball from kick offs .

If you ask the big bodies to get onside and ruck after a kick . You will have some very tired forwards and a leaky ruck .

 

[BroncsFan]

Dude ! Have you been watching the NRL the last 20 years ?

The forwards do SFA on kick returns . Its the back 5 who do the work in their own half . Forwards only carry the ball from kick offs .

If you ask the big bodies to get onside and ruck after a kick . You will have some very tired forwards and a leaky ruck .

Did you not read the second line that talks about our backs taking the first 3 hitups???

After that if we're beyond the forwards Haas will usually put his hand up for a run... or Cobbo will take a hit up here and there. Staggs rarely takes a hit up, but it's 50/50 on whether it's Cobbo or Staggs taking a hit up.

Most of the time on kick returns one of our forwards will end up taking a hitup, but the first 3 are pretty standard for us with Oates and Herbie always looking to take a run.

 

[Big Del]

Your opening statement .

This is true, but Haas and Carrigan are basically workhorse meter eating props... are we getting the best out of them if we start playing to backs on get out sets?

My answer ; If you ask the big bodies to get onside and ruck after a kick . You will have some very tired forwards and a leaky ruck .


There is a reason why this is standard practice . It`s called aerobic vs anaerobic fitness .

More muscles = puffed faster . Less muscles not as explosive . Has to be a balance .

 

[1910]

This is true, but Haas and Carrigan are basically workhorse meter eating props... are we getting the best out of them if we start playing to backs on get out sets?

Oates and Herbie basically take a hitup every set. With the fullback taking the kick return hitup that's 3 runs out of 5 taken up.

Where this deviates is on our kick off sets... it'll be Haas/Jensen 1st, then we usually go Riki, then Patty, then Haas takes a second one... then we might usually look for a kick.

Rorters will typically use Tupou on the 2nd carry after kick off... cant recall if the Panthers go outside backs on kick offs because I'm sure JFH and Leota take hitups there... and they'll usually do an early spread to the edge for Kikau (previously).

So I think in all we do use our backs on yardage sets, but we also look to utilise our big middles, because they're just plain good at it.

Patty will often generate a quick ptb... a lot of our good ball plays come off the back of a Patty run.

Haas not so much but he does get big yards every tackle... I'd like us to not use him before a kick though... would prefer Reyno kicks after a Patty run to be on the front foot

Penrith always go JFH from the kickoff, Yeo back into the ruck to make someone double up or a tip on to Leto to try and move to an edge and get the half ready to tackle Kikau- Laui to Kikau. Then back to Cleary or Edwards in the middle.

With a bit of Kenny or Api chucked in too at sometime.

 

[BroncsFan]

Your opening statement .




My answer ; If you ask the big bodies to get onside and ruck after a kick . You will have some very tired forwards and a leaky ruck .


There is a reason why this is standard practice . It`s called aerobic vs anaerobic fitness .

Because the end statement I was replying to was "Allowing our forwards to focus on defence and ball playing, damaging runs in the attacking zone."

My first statement was in response to our forwards and why we would look to utilise them... i.e. they're fucking good at it, so it's coached into them to do it. Or is Haas just making 150m a game on a couple kick off sets and settlers inside our 20m?

My second line was in regards to 'how we do use our backs for yardage sets'... which was addressing the general statement of the comment I was replying to.

I then went to how this deviates on a kick off set i.e. when the ball is in front of the forwards. Which is where Panthers do use their forwards... i.e. Penrith do not exclusively use their backs for yardage at all times.

The general use of forwards taking hitups is when the ball is in front of them (kick off sets, drop out sets, penalty sets for settlers, etc.)... when it's behind them they'll wait for the backs to ruck it out and get the ball in front of them... that's their general way of conserving energy.

For the Panthers they almost exclusively use backs on kick return sets... For us Haas and co will look to take a hitup on a kick return if the ball is in front of them. Haas just happens to have a massive motor and is always looking for a run. Patty then likes to follow and run off the back of him.

Is that what's best for us or could we look to better utilise our players... I don't know I'm just providing an observation of how we like to play and why we might like to play that way compared to other teams.

If our strength is Haas and co making meters then it would be expected that our game plan would look to utilise this... if we suddenly said to Staggs you're taking 20 hitups a game, whilst Haas is conserving energy for his pillow defence and Patty is only used inside the 20m for ball playing, then you're replacing Haas' meters and Patty's quick ptb's for Staggs who typically gets belted on yardage runs and may not be suited to 20+ runs a game like Herbie and Oates are.

 

[Sproj]

Come on, let's get this announced already.

 

[1910]

Penrith's sets are good not just because of who is running the ball but who they're running at. It's all very calculated and everyone knows who needs to make two tackles in a row who needs to make the third tackle so that will leave Reynolds on his own. We need him at marker so Cleary can kick it or Edwards can stream through the middle.

Nothing ad hoc about it.