Dear NRL HQ & the media...

[theshed]

Wow V'landal just pulled the Boyd special. "It's just a game".

Oh man, he's pushing it back onto the clubs as a welfare reponsibility argument. That wasn't smart.

I’ve been considering this a bit since the initial emotion of seeing the game die in front of our eyes settled.

That’s the existential crisis that the NRL faces, and Vlandy isn’t wrong. He says winning isn’t everything and we need to protect player welfare, to give the players back to their families in good shape when they finish playing.

It’s absolutely correct. The sport isn’t so important that it should continue to be prioritised with the cost of life long effects of CTE, mobility issues, chronic pain, or pain med addiction.

Much like Boyd was right about other things such as mental health being more important than footy. Absolutely correct but no one wants to hear it.

I used to love boxing training but a few years ago I made the decision that I couldn’t keep taking shots to the head, and encouraged friends to strongly consider it to. Viscous drills that promote close range wars would often end with post training fog that lasted hours. Of course, I could alter the way I trained to minimise head knocks and I did do that initially but then I realised that without the contact and the competitive aspect , it didn’t fulfil in the same way it used to, and I moved on to other forms of exercise.

I guess my point is, Vlandy is right. We can’t ignore the long term damage contact sport does to its participants. I know guys who have boxed all their life who have dementia like moments in their late 20s. The real question is whether or not the game will survive the ever moving goal posts of duty of care - at what point does it become “just a game” and I no longer feel invested in the spectacle. Maybe the younger generations will evolve with the game and their expectations will be more in line with the safer approach.

 

[ozzball]

Unfortunately though, he doesn't have anyone higher who can remove him.

Fair point mate .. but surely Blandy must be accountable to someone ... if only US but, then again, he described us as "white noise" (he's stealing one from the Justin Langer playbook there).

 

[Midean]

I’ve been considering this a bit since the initial emotion of seeing the game die in front of our eyes settled.

That’s the existential crisis that the NRL faces, and Vlandy isn’t wrong. He says winning isn’t everything and we need to protect player welfare, to give the players back to their families in good shape when they finish playing.

It’s absolutely correct. The sport isn’t so important that it should continue to be prioritised with the cost of life long effects of CTE, mobility issues, chronic pain, or pain med addiction.

Much like Boyd was right about other things such as mental health being more important than footy. Absolutely correct but no one wants to hear it.

I used to love boxing training but a few years ago I made the decision that I couldn’t keep taking shots to the head, and encouraged friends to strongly consider it to. Viscous drills that promote close range wars would often end with post training fog that lasted hours. Of course, I could alter the way I trained to minimise head knocks and I did do that initially but then I realised that without the contact and the competitive aspect , it didn’t fulfil in the same way it used to, and I moved on to other forms of exercise.

I guess my point is, Vlandy is right. We can’t ignore the long term damage contact sport does to its participants. I know guys who have boxed all their life who have dementia like moments in their late 20s. The real question is whether or not the game will survive the ever moving goal posts of duty of care - at what point does it become “just a game” and I no longer feel invested in the spectacle. Maybe the younger generations will evolve with the game and their expectations will be more in line with the safer approach.

Shouldn't it be the choice of the individual?
I see your point, however, there are those of us that will partake in the brutal side of sport because we want to.
We know the potential risks, and the outcomes, and because we love it, we do it anyway.
Its like drinking or smoking, they are bad for you, they can kill you, but ultimately, its my choice if i partake because i enjoy it.

The same applies to sport, and its why the UFC is a global phenomenon.
So no mate, i disagree.
Vlandys is changing the sport to suit the needs of those who find the brutality too much, and in doing so, is making the choice for the entire game.
I guarantee players like Tallis, Sironen, Chief, and more recently, JWH, Nelson Asofa Solomona, TPJ and others play this sport because they are physically aggressive people who love the combatant and gladiatorial aspect of the game.

Google "the violence gene" its a very real thing, and its a reason out species loves to go to war with each other, its why there are murders every year and people fighting at pubs and clubs all over the world every friday and saturday night.

Aggression and violence is as much a part of human nature as anything else, only the people that dont like aggression and violence cant see that, and so have decided for all of us that it is wrong.

If NRL came to me in my 20's and said, we will pay you 1 million dollars a year to play our game, but there is every chance you will get long term damage from it, i would happily take the paycheck and play the sport i love.

The same with UFC fighters.
There is not a single HW in the division that would think they could walk away from a Ngannou bombing overhand right without any damage.

Make no mistake either Theshed, Vlandys is not doing this for the safety of the players, i promise you.
He is doing it because like the NFL, the NRL is staring down the barrel of law suits around CTE.

 

[ZTop]

Surely if we get enough of the games fans against him we can get him to step down.

Change.org anyone?

 

[theshed]

Shouldn't it be the choice of the individual?
I see your point, however, there are those of us that will partake in the brutal side of sport because we want to.
We know the potential risks, and the outcomes, and because we love it, we do it anyway.
Its like drinking or smoking, they are bad for you, they can kill you, but ultimately, its my choice if i partake because i enjoy it.

The same applies to sport, and its why the UFC is a global phenomenon.
So no mate, i disagree.
Vlandys is changing the sport to suit the needs of those who find the brutality too much, and in doing so, is making the choice for the entire game.
I guarantee players like Tallis, Sironen, Chief, and more recently, JWH, Nelson Asofa Solomona, TPJ and others play this sport because they are physically aggressive people who love the combatant and gladiatorial aspect of the game.

Google "the violence gene" its a very real thing, and its a reason out species loves to go to war with each other, its why there are murders every year and people fighting at pubs and clubs all over the world every friday and saturday night.

Aggression and violence is as much a part of human nature as anything else, only the people that dont like aggression and violence cant see that, and so have decided for all of us that it is wrong.

If NRL came to me in my 20's and said, we will pay you 1 million dollars a year to play our game, but there is every chance you will get long term damage from it, i would happily take the paycheck and play the sport i love.

The same with UFC fighters.
There is not a single HW in the division that would think they could walk away from a Ngannou bombing overhand right without any damage.

Make no mistake either Theshed, Vlandys is not doing this for the safety of the players, i promise you.
He is doing it because like the NFL, the NRL is staring down the barrel of law suits around CTE.

Yeah I agree about the personal choice. I think more can be done to protect and support players while allowing them to chose to take the risks.

Off the top of my head without much thought.
- educating young players of the risks so they can make informed decisions around playing
- increasing the minimum age of NRL debuts to 21 (to avoid being thrown $400k at 17 and exploiting their vulnerability around assessing risk).
- strict protocols around concussions continuing. Forced time out of game after concussions. eg 2 concussions in a year and have to sit out for 6 months (I pulled those numbers out of my ass).
- clubs having to account for life after football in their contracts (% of each contract can’t be accessed by player until retirement)
- NRL taking more responsibility for post-retirement medical / psychological expenses.

 

[Midean]

Yeah I agree about the personal choice. I think more can be done to protect and support players while allowing them to chose to take the risks.

Off the top of my head without much thought.
- educating young players of the risks so they can make informed decisions around playing
- increasing the minimum age of NRL debuts to 21 (to avoid being thrown $400k at 17 and exploiting their vulnerability around assessing risk).
- strict protocols around concussions continuing. Forced time out of game after concussions. eg 2 concussions in a year and have to sit out for 6 months (I pulled those numbers out of my ass).
- clubs having to account for life after football in their contracts (% of each contract can’t be accessed by player until retirement)
- NRL taking more responsibility for post-retirement medical / psychological expenses.

This is exactly what the NRL needs to do.
Alongside waivers for legal action.

If the NRL puts into place the things you listed here, particularly post career support and pre-career education regarding the risks of playing a contact sport, then there is no chance a court case would be successful against the NRL, as any players that tried to pursue legal action would be shut down immediately by the fact that they were well aware of what could happen, and chose to do it anyway.

 

[The True King]

In years gone by if I've been at home I will watch whatever NRL game is on TV. Even if I'm out and about I'd keep track of scores. I can confidently say I watched 4-5 games a weekend on average and I'd be able to tell you who won every game even if I didn't watch it. In contrast, I never watched any AFL and only really noticed the Lions score in the Sunday paper.

For the first time probably ever, I wouldn't be able to tell you who played the Saturday afternoon game this weekend gone by. I had the AFL on. Even though the Lions pumped the Suns, it was still more entertaining than any of the NRL games I caught a glimpse of over the weekend. I didn't watch a single league game in its entirety.

I am by no means a casual NRL fan and my lack of interest has nothing to do with the Broncos being poor. Even last season at our worst I watched basically every game.

I love the sport but the incompetence of the officiating and stupidity of the rule changes are turning away even the most rusted on NRL fans.

 

[Skathen]

I am by no means a casual NRL fan and my lack of interest has nothing to do with the Broncos being poor. Even last season at our worst I watched basically every game.

I love the sport but the incompetence of the officiating and stupidity of the rule changes are turning away even the most rusted on NRL fans.

And this is what the muppet PVL completely forgets in his strategy. In appealing to whatever apparent market he think's he's trying to win over, he's alienating the true base. The dad's (or future dads) who teach their kids about footy and love the game as it was before his plethora of idiotic changes.

I understand they want to push the game into new markets to increase their marketability and keep the TV execs happy, but by destroying the core of your fanbase in the process, nose to spite face much? End result will be more transient fans who will overall see the following of the game continue to dwindle.

 

[OXY-351]

It's all good to say just get players to sign waivers, but at what stage of a players career are these going to be signed? Sure when they turn 18 they can make the choice for themselves, but what about before this?

Seems like junior participation would be low with parents not wanting their kids to be playing in a game that could ultimately be harmful to them. The players will be lost to other sports before they even get to NRL level.

I think the NRL needed to take some for of action for the greater long term good of the game and players, but not sure they've got about it the right way. Going to be interesting to see how long they stick with it though. All the previous crack downs seem to last a week or two and then go back to normal, but they are generally for less serious issues than player welfare. Listening to PVL last night on NRL360, he's backing himself in to a corner a bit. He's going to look weak and look like it was wrong move if it doesn't continue, and he doesn't seem like the type of person to want to admit to either of those.

 

[Sproj]

The problem isn't the rule change itself. Protecting the heads of players is super important and THAT change is a good thing. This is also the angle the Vlandys and Abdo and all the other idiots keep peddling but this isn't what fans are upset about.

Fans are upset at the inconsistencies around officiating and blanket statements that fans want this or that when most people we all talk to and know definitely do not want what it is said they want.

The issue is also that these rule changes are done on a whim and while blanketly done, still result in major inconsistencies that are affecting results and the quality of the product.

You can penalise high shots more but you don't need to accompany them with knee-jerk sinbins for situations like with Burr that is totally out of his control. You can penalise players and clubs that rort the system with HIAs, etc. There are better ways to go about a needed change that don't result in your flagship event of Magic Round being totally and utterly ruined.

You can also fix this problem by removing (or at least changing) the rules that are making it much harder for players who are fatigued and burnt out because the speed is too fast. Players AND OFFICIALS under fatigue is what is leading to more damaging collisions and more uneven adjudicating. Vlandys is trying to say that he is solving a problem HE has made worse in the first place.

All of this because the idiots at the top think they know what everyone wants but aren't actually consulting with people to find out. Remove the six again stupidity and keep the head high crack down, that would be a start but also show some common sense when a player hits his own head or is hit due to slipping or something that is out of anyone's control. It is a contact sport, contact will happen but you can't keep changing the rules on the fly to turn it into a sport it is not and in the meantime drive all your fans away.

It is just plain lunacy that could all have been avoided with more forethought and more professionalism in doing what ALL professional organisations do and think it through / strategize it first.

 

[Sproj]

It's all good to say just get players to sign waivers, but at what stage of a players career are these going to be signed? Sure when they turn 18 they can make the choice for themselves, but what about before this?

Seems like junior participation would be low with parents not wanting their kids to be playing in a game that could ultimately be harmful to them. The players will be lost to other sports before they even get to NRL level.

I think the NRL needed to take some for of action for the greater long term good of the game and players, but not sure they've got about it the right way. Going to be interesting to see how long they stick with it though. All the previous crack downs seem to last a week or two and then go back to normal, but they are generally for less serious issues than player welfare. Listening to PVL last night on NRL360, he's backing himself in to a corner a bit. He's going to look weak and look like it was wrong move if it doesn't continue, and he doesn't seem like the type of person to want to admit to either of those.

But he is also alienating key stakeholders (and that includes fans) by the confrontational my way or the highway approach he is taking. It is because of HIM and his cronies that this important issue has become a farce, there is no two ways about that.

 

[BroncsFan]

I think the thing that pisses me off the most about the game at the moment is the complete lack of consistency in the officiating. This isn't just a 6 again thing either, because I feel that referees have been manipulating results for the last 10-15 years.

You can watch a game and blatantly see calls being made to influence a game... the Chad Townsend 'crusher' on the weekend being a perfect example. Sharks had all the momentum and the bunnies were every chance of being run down, but low and behold a NSWRL darling gets a penalty for something that didn't even happen and they go down the field to score a try and effectively end the game as a contest.

The most frustrating thing for fans is that they can see the call was a dud, the commentators can see the call was wrong, but they have zero power to stop it from happening. Hell the players have zero power to change it, because they can't challenge a call that has already been reviewed by the person who is meant to be reviewing captain's challenges. Everyone can only sit back and watch as a winnable game is taken away from them by a completely incorrect and oftentimes unnecessary call, and this type of call happens all the time and in basically every game.

The referee manipulation was obvious pre 6 again era, it was all about creating close games. If one team got too far ahead the ref would start blowing every call against them to bring the other team back into the contest. However in this current era the ref appears to pile on to whichever team doesn't have momentum and is fine with creating blowout scorelines... and the frustration from fans is the complete inconsistency of the calls.

In the broncos game vs manly we had the TPJ incident, but to me I would question how there were no other reportable offences in the 400 odd other tackles throughout the game?

The shot from TPJ was innocuous at best, but you're going to tell me that there were absolutely no other shots that slipped up that the referee may have missed... A decision like that cannot be scrutinised against other tackles in the game, because who is going to sit through every single tackle each game to find the ones they miss, but when a viewer sees a shot that gets missed and goes unpunished, such as Dearden getting taken high after kicking, they start pulling their hair out as to why that wasn't a penalty when it is every other week or was probably even officiated different earlier in the game... blockers on kicks being another one... Coates can't get near the ball nowadays, but apparently every team in the comp is an expert at legally blocking him. Then you see DCE, Moses, Gutho, whoever take a dive 30m from the ball, because they literally just ran into someone's shoulder or something, and the ref can't wait to get the whistle out.

The same can be said about offsides nowadays and the blatant disregard to 6 agains. Not only are the refs completely inconsistent with making the calls, but the penalty on the team that has committed it is basically zero so they will just keep doing it... there is currently no deterrent to stop!!

The current game just blatantly rewards whoever cheats the most... I cannot think of any other sport in the world where the team that cheats the most on the field is the consistent winner and that would piss people off to no end.

I also cannot think of any other sport in the world that can be manipulated so easily by the officiating, to the point where they can have complete control over who wins. If I'm in the underworld and want to do match fixing, I wouldn't be going to the high paid celebrity status players... I'd be going to the poorly paid referee that literally cannot be scrutinised or have their motives questioned by coaches and whose complete manipulation gets shrugged off as incompetency or managing of the game. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if it's already happening.

 

[OXY-351]

But he also alienating key stakeholders (and that includes fans) by the confrontational my way or the highway approach he is taking. It is because of HIM and his cronies that this important issue has become a farce, there is no two ways about that.

No arguing with you about that. They should have attempted to address this issue in other ways before going down this hard line path. Sure it may not have worked without a hard line approach, but surely it would have been time better spent, rather than look in to stupid rule changes based on supposed fan polls.

And it seems ridiculous they chose to do it on such a show case round.

 

[Sproj]

I think the thing that pisses me off the most about the game at the moment is the complete lack of consistency in the officiating. This isn't just a 6 again thing either, because I feel that referees have been manipulating results for the last 10-15 years.

You can watch a game and blatantly see calls being made to influence a game... the Chad Townsend 'crusher' on the weekend being a perfect example. Sharks had all the momentum and the bunnies were every chance of being run down, but low and behold a NSWRL darling gets a penalty for something that didn't even happen and they go down the field to score a try and effectively end the game as a contest.

The most frustrating thing for fans is that they can see the call was a dud, the commentators can see the call was wrong, but they have zero power to stop it from happening. Hell the players have zero power to change it, because they can't challenge a call that has already been reviewed by the person who is meant to be reviewing captain's challenges. Everyone can only sit back and watch as a winnable game is taken away from them by a completely incorrect and oftentimes unnecessary call, and this type of call happens all the time and in basically every game.

The referee manipulation was obvious pre 6 again era, it was all about creating close games. If one team got too far ahead the ref would start blowing every call against them to bring the other team back into the contest. However in this current era the ref appears to pile on to whichever team doesn't have momentum and is fine with creating blowout scorelines... and the frustration from fans is the complete inconsistency of the calls.

In the broncos game vs manly we had the TPJ incident, but to me I would question how there were no other reportable offences in the 400 odd other tackles throughout the game?

The shot from TPJ was innocuous at best, but you're going to tell me that there were absolutely no other shots that slipped up that the referee may have missed... A decision like that cannot be scrutinised against other tackles in the game, because who is going to sit through every single tackle each game to find the ones they miss, but when a viewer sees a shot that gets missed and goes unpunished, such as Dearden getting taken high after kicking, they start pulling their hair out as to why that wasn't a penalty when it is every other week or was probably even officiated different earlier in the game... blockers on kicks being another one... Coates can't get near the ball nowadays, but apparently every team in the comp is an expert at blocking illegally against him. Then you see DCE, Moses, Gutho, whoever take a dive 30m from the ball, because they literally just ran into someone's shoulder or something, and the ref can't wait to get the whistle out.

The same can be said about offsides nowadays and the blatant disregard to 6 agains. Not only are the refs completely inconsistent with making the calls, but the penalty on the team that has committed it is basically zero so they will just keep doing it... there is currently no deterrent to stop!!

The current game just blatantly rewards whoever cheats the most... I cannot think of any other sport in the world where the team that cheats the most on the field is the consistent winner and that would piss people off to no end.

I also cannot think of any other sport in the world that can be manipulated so easily by the officiating, to the point where they can have complete control over who wins. If I'm in the underworld and want to do match fixing, I wouldn't be going to the high paid celebrity status players... I'd be going to the poorly paid referee that literally cannot be scrutinised or have their motives questioned by coaches and whose complete manipulation gets shrugged off as incompetency or managing of the game. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if it's already happening.

And despite the fact these stupid decisions happen and some are missed, we go back six tackles for what 'might' have been a penalty. You can't just pick and choose when this happens in the interests of fairness, yet this is exactly what they do.

 

[Sproj]

No arguing with you about that. They should have attempted to address this issue in other ways before going down this hard line path. Sure it may not have worked without a hard line approach, but surely it would have been time better spent, rather than look in to stupid rule changes based on supposed fan polls.

And it seems ridiculous they chose to do it on such a show case round.

Yep and I bet you that these supposed fan polls are in the same place as the supposed report into the viability of a new team = neither happened.

 

[Mustafur]

Once a tackle has made and the ball has been played, the refs shouldn't be allowed to go back, let the MRC deal with it.

 

[Scorchie]

Once a tackle has made and the ball has been played, the refs shouldn't be allowed to go back, let the MRC deal with it.

Unless its in a try scoring situation or a Grade 3 act of foul play...

 

[Sproj]

Unless its in a try scoring situation or a Grade 3 act of foul play...

Or apparently a major incident like TPJ but not Momirovski.