Drugs in sport - government investigation

[Mr Fourex]

I'd rather not make the 8 just because a club got docked.

Docked for cheating ....remember.

I'll take it!

 

[Nashy]

According to Gallen on Triple M, he has heard nothing about this so called ban offer.

ASADA s a joke.

 

[Morkel]

According to Gallen on Triple M, he has heard nothing about this so called ban offer.

ASADA s a joke.

I thought his official line was "I have never negotiated or come to any agreement or made demands". That's what I heard him say on Triple-M anyway. And I believe him. His legal team would have been doing all of that for him. He might be talking the truth, but that doesn't mean it's not misleading.

 

[Coxy]

So, whatever they have allegedly taken was banned at the time. Just a question, if they were under the care of the clubs staff are they obliged to know exactly was in the peptides and if they were on a banned list ? Also , is there concrete evidence that the substances mentioned were in the peptides/supplements ?

Yes, the ASADA (and WADA) rules are very clear that the responsibility lies solely with the athlete for what gets put in their body. That it was prescribed by a doctor/trainer/whatever is not a defence. That can be seen as pretty harsh, but it stops the ability for third parties to take the fall in case an athlete is caught.

eg, imagine if Lance Armstrong could've just said "I was told by my doctor none of the stuff I took was on the banned list!"...

 

[subsbligh]

Yes, the ASADA (and WADA) rules are very clear that the responsibility lies solely with the athlete for what gets put in their body. That it was prescribed by a doctor/trainer/whatever is not a defence. That can be seen as pretty harsh, but it stops the ability for third parties to take the fall in case an athlete is caught.

eg, imagine if Lance Armstrong could've just said "I was told by my doctor none of the stuff I took was on the banned list!"...

Dank and the team doctors (if they were, or proven that they ought to have been, aware) should be in the gun. I think it is abhorrent, but the players should be given the benefit of the doubt.

I doubt the average NRL player would have the sense to (a) question the supplements given to them by team doctors, or people holding themselves out to be "medical experts"; and even if they did (b) make independent enquiries as to whether they were legal; and even if they did (c) understand or interpret very complicated WADA rules.

Nothing is going to stick to the players. ASADA knows that. Even if they have a Rules Violation Panel (or some other quasi-judicial enquiry), the players can avoid testifying on the basis of self-incrimination if the facts or circumstances giving rise to the enquiry might also give rise to a criminal prosecution (e.g. importing illegal substances etc).

The players are as thick as thieves.

Dimitriou (being the sharp operator, not the fat banker) has obviously impressed this upon ASADA early, told them they will get nothing and he will delay/pay a legal dream team to make sure of it. "Go and hang the NRL, because you're not getting your headline on my watch".

Hold fast until after the election. New government, new ministers, new public servants, time passing and evidence dwindling. Good night ASADA.

Nothing will stick. And as I've said since day 1, it's a fishing expedition based on inferences and implications.

 

[subsbligh]

Yes, the ASADA (and WADA) rules are very clear that the responsibility lies solely with the athlete for what gets put in their body. That it was prescribed by a doctor/trainer/whatever is not a defence. That can be seen as pretty harsh, but it stops the ability for third parties to take the fall in case an athlete is caught.

eg, imagine if Lance Armstrong could've just said "I was told by my doctor none of the stuff I took was on the banned list!"...

That's not strictly true.

What if they were held down or administered in their sleep?

 

[Anonymous person]

EDIT: Defamatory post

 

[Coxy]

It's incredibly naive to think the players weren't sus on what was going on. And again, unless you can prove that it was given without their consent (ie, in their sleep, in their drink bottles whatever) then yes the player/athlete themselves have to face sanctions.

 

[broncos4life]

MOD EDIT

couldn't agree more. And also now his performances, while still good are no where even near what he was producing

 

[Big Pete]

Members need to be reminded that posting any rumours that can be construed as defamation cannot be posted under any circumstances.

 

[subsbligh]

It's incredibly naive to think the players weren't sus on what was going on. And again, unless you can prove that it was given without their consent (ie, in their sleep, in their drink bottles whatever) then yes the player/athlete themselves have to face sanctions.

I think there is strong arguments either way about the knowledge aspect.

Also, I believe that the players may argue absence of knowledge if a reasonable sports person, in their circumstances would not have been put on enquiry.

That's pretty grey.

Team doctor: "Here is your weekly Musashi, take it after every session. A daily multivitamin, fish-oil tablets, magnesium and some other supplements."
Player: "What's in the supplements?"

In that situation I wouldn't have asked and I consider myself pretty sceptical.

I would have trusted the doctors and medical scientists. Who else am I going to ask for an opinion? A third party doctor? Why would my team doctor want to administer me with steroids man? We're not a cheating club, why would they do the wrong thing?

There is also a fiduciary duty of utmost good faith and trust between a doctor and patient which surely comes into play if it was the doctors administering the drugs.

 

[Coxy]

Yes, and it's where if a player gets suspended by ASADA for 2 years for doping they'd sue the shit out of the doctor for being a negligent ****.

 

[Anonymous person]

Yes, and it's where if a player gets suspended by ASADA for 2 years for doping they'd sue the **** out of the doctor for being a negligent ****.

basically exactly like we have previously discussed in relation to tax returns. you didnt do anything wrong personally, the person in charge of taking care of you did something wrong, but you still get in trouble.

Members need to be reminded that posting any rumours that can be construed as defamation cannot be posted under any circumstances.

i wasnt posting a rumour, i was voicing my opinion. big difference. i didnt think it was defamatory in any way tbh.

if i was to say "i think player x must be taking drugs because of the drastic change in their performance almost overnight", thats not defamation. if i was to say "player x is taking drugs, my friends brothers uncles dogs groomer said so", that could be defamation.

oh well, youre not going to change your mind based on our previous run-ins so i give up.

 

[theshed]

b
i wasnt posting a rumour, i was voicing my opinion. big difference. i didnt think it was defamatory in any way tbh.

if i was to say "i think player x must be taking drugs because of the drastic change in their performance almost overnight", thats not defamation. if i was to say "player x is taking drugs, my friends brothers uncles dogs groomer said so", that could be defamation.

oh well, youre not going to change your mind based on our previous run-ins so i give up.

I think they are just playing it safe, which is understandable. Throwing around opinions on who is and isn't cheating without any evidence doesn't add enough to the board that they'd risk getting in trouble to keep it.

Mod Edit: Defamation

 

[Big Pete]

AP - First and last warning, if you have an issue with a mod ruling take it up via PM.

You were lucky to receive leniency in the first place.

 

[Morkel]

Players are warned in no uncertain terms that the buck stops with them in regards to what supplements they take. The NRL, at the start of every season, goes to great lengths to inform them about the rules, the legalities, and gives them and the clubs the directive that if they do not know 100% what they are being given then they need to speak to someone in authority who can answer their questions.

 

[Huge]

Where's the evidence that the supplements contained something illegal ? Did all these players submit some blood samples and why if they did has it taken two years to surface ? If they have evidence that the players took performance enhancing drugs then why no charges when the evidence was found ?

 

[Morkel]

Where's the evidence that the supplements contained something illegal ? Did all these players submit some blood samples and why if they did has it taken two years to surface ? If they have evidence that the players took performance enhancing drugs then why no charges when the evidence was found ?

Lance Armstrong never returned a positive test. Why are people so quick to defend cheats? Politics, bluster, and journalism aside, it is clear that what went on was illegal. The fact that the players supposedly didn't know doesn't matter. They were legally obliged to check on everything they took. I'd sure there are Storm players who won GF's that didn't know their club was doing the dirty, but they still lose their premierships. If any player has gained an advantage by illegal means, rub them out. We love our game because players can do things that are almost super-human. I want to be able to marvel at those players, think about the hard work they've done to get there, and hold them in suitable regard. If someone's achieved those feats by illegal means, it not only waters down the wonder towards those that have achieved it legit, but it also penalises the team-mates, the clubs, and the fans, of those who do the right thing.