Drugs in sport - government investigation

[Huge]

Defend drug cheats ? Who did that ? As far as I know nobody has been charged with anything. I believe in innocent until guilty and I reserve judgement until such time as guilt is proved. Only a total wanker condemns without knowing the facts and that's not me. I ask reasonable questions and am stunned that the words I wrote could be taken any other way.

Rather than an attack on my standards perhaps it would be better to consider the questions and possible answer. Has anyone been charged , tried and found guilty ?

 

[Coxy]

Well no, you're defending them in the hypothetical case they were found guilty and questioning the evidence related to it. Nobody can answer the question about what evidence ASADA have other than ASADA.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Players are warned in no uncertain terms that the buck stops with them in regards to what supplements they take. The NRL, at the start of every season, goes to great lengths to inform them about the rules, the legalities, and gives them and the clubs the directive that if they do not know 100% what they are being given then they need to speak to someone in authority who can answer their questions.

Exactly .......today's footballers know what they can and what they can't take. It's not like they haven't heard of performance enhancing drugs before. Suddenly a player being clued onto some "wonder programme" by a sports scientists whose name is whispered only in the back alleys of the local gym

and not suspecting some thing's amiss??? It's ridiculous to even suggest such a thing.....

As I said earlier......there are no innocent victims here.

Some of these players have been caught cheating. They need to be punished.......

and so should the club.

The Sharks should be stripped of their premiership points. Effective immediately.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Rather than an attack on my standards perhaps it would be better to consider the questions and possible answer. Has anyone been charged , tried and found guilty ?

There is a band of Cronulla Sharks players who are in the process of working out a deal regarding their punishment.....ie: plea bargaining.

They have all but, admitted their guilt.

 

[Huge]

Exactly .......today's footballers know what they can and what they can't take. It's not like they haven't heard of performance enhancing drugs before. Suddenly a player being clued onto some "wonder programme" by a sports scientists whose name is whispered only in the back alleys of the local gym

and not suspecting some thing's amiss??? It's ridiculous to even suggest such a thing.....

As I said earlier......there are no innocent victims here.

Some of these players have been caught cheating. They need to be punished.......

and so should the club.

The Sharks should be stripped of their premiership points. Effective immediately.

Stripped of this years points for something that happened two years ago ?????? So the players in this years team who have committed no offence should be punished for someone else's crimes !!! Thank heavens you're not in charge ! Which players were caught cheating ? Rumours and innuendo is not proof of an offence having been committed so, which players have been charged ?

 

[Morkel]

Stripped of this years points for something that happened two years ago ?????? So the players in this years team who have committed no offence should be punished for someone else's crimes !!! Thank heavens you're not in charge ! Which players were caught cheating ? Rumours and innuendo is not proof of an offence having been committed so, which players have been charged ?

Again, tell that to the Storm players that weren't high-profile enough to get free boats. The point here is that this is not a situation where physical evidence is likely to surface. In today's article they mention the trainer injected himself, got himself tested, and it came back negative. Why would they do that if they didn't A) know that it was illegal, and B) intend to hide its use. Because of the very nature of the cheating itself, and the lengths they go to mask it, witness statements will be the best evidence they can hope for. Or are you saying that the trainer himself admitting to administering those drugs is not good enough evidence?

 

[ningnangnong]

Surprised this has been mentioned and not entirely sure if it's related to the topic at hand, but Bruno Cullen quit as interim CEO of the Sharks yesty.

 

[Coxy]

It got mentioned, and yes it is relevant since he's quit because they reappointed one of the trainers involved in 2011 who was sacked prior to Cullen's appointment. And they did so without any consultation with him as CEO.

His attitude is basically that there's no point him trying to help the club get back on track if they do things without consulting him.

 

[ningnangnong]

Clearly I read the thread.

 

[Huge]

Again, tell that to the Storm players that weren't high-profile enough to get free boats. The point here is that this is not a situation where physical evidence is likely to surface. In today's article they mention the trainer injected himself, got himself tested, and it came back negative. Why would they do that if they didn't A) know that it was illegal, and B) intend to hide its use. Because of the very nature of the cheating itself, and the lengths they go to mask it, witness statements will be the best evidence they can hope for. Or are you saying that the trainer himself admitting to administering those drugs is not good enough evidence?

The trainer injected himself, it came back negative . I'm not sure but doesn't that indicate there was nothing illegal in the supplements ? Isn't it possible they would do that to ensure the integrity of the players ? After such a test you could then be sure that what you were giving the players is okay, yeh ? As far as I know all that proves is a trainer injected himself and passed the test. The word is 'proves'. Not innuendo. By the way, the players of 2013 cannot be punished for the sins of the 2011 players if in fact any sinning is proven. It is an odious comparison with the Storm. The sins of the father are not the sins of the son.

 

[Morkel]

The trainer injected himself, it came back negative . I'm not sure but doesn't that indicate there was nothing illegal in the supplements ? Isn't it possible they would do that to ensure the integrity of the players ? After such a test you could then be sure that what you were giving the players is okay, yeh ? As far as I know all that proves is a trainer injected himself and passed the test. The word is 'proves'. Not innuendo. By the way, the players of 2013 cannot be punished for the sins of the 2011 players if in fact any sinning is proven. It is an odious comparison with the Storm. The sins of the father are not the sins of the son.

I may have interpreted the article totally different to you, but it sounded to me like he was testing himself for traces of the drugs, ie, using the same method that a routine drug tester would use, and it came back negative. As in, if the players get tested they'd come back clean - despite the fact they were using illegal drugs.

 

[Huge]

Sometimes it's the way article is written, sometimes it's the mindset one has when reading an article. Whatever, Im simply going to wait to see the evidence tested before making a comment on this particular case. That said, I don't approve of illegal advantage gained through use of drugs but I do believe it is entirely plausible players could take supplements without thinking they were cheating. Trust is a funny thing and the most stunning example I can give is this: Which profession/person would a parent handover their 5 year old son and 7 year old daughter to without a second thought about the children and their safety ?

You may think a doctor, police officer something like that but amazingly parents do this everyday of the week. They will stand on the footpath and when the bus turns up they will simply usher them onto the bus, into the care of some person whom they've likely never met and certainly not checked their credentials. All on trust . It is not hard to imagine a 20 year old player in the company of a highly trained practitioner or trusted medico employed by the club trusting that person to only give the player something legal and safe. These are older men who doubtless would be confident and assured and equally adept at reassuring the player that all was well. What player would say in that situation, hold on, let me get this stuff independently tested and verified safe before taking it ?

 

[Mr Fourex]

That said, I don't approve of illegal advantage gained through use of drugs but I do believe it is entirely plausible players could take supplements without thinking they were cheating.

Even if they had this "trust", it's fair to assume that the player himself would notice changes in his own body. You can't tell me a player who one year is a mediocre plodder and battles recovering from injuries, can go to running 200m+ / game.......playing more minutes than anyone else in the team, week in week out, and

even has the media describing him as "super human"

You can't tell me that same player would look in the mirror at night and say to himself, "geez....it must be just co-incidence that I found these new super powers the same time right after I started that new programme down at the club"

Co-incidence? Aint no such thing.

Especially when former Cronulla players are coming out with stuff like this;

The supplements in question were taken by Gordon as lozenges, drinks and creams, and he was also given a vial with the label ''for equine use only'' and ''not for human consumption'' to be taken orally each morning and night.

Former Shark Isaac Gordon to sue club over supplements... | Stuff.co.nz


"yeah .....I'll take horse drugs. That doesn't sound dodgy at all."

 

[Nashy]

They players are given these drugs to perform better. Of course the player is going to expect their performance will increase. Doesn't mean they think they are illegal.

 

[Huge]

Lets give em a fair trial and then hang em from a tree......whatever, I will wait for the evidence. As one who has endured a vexatious claim in my past I err on the side of caution. If something is proven then by all means let justice be swift but until then speculation and loud condemnation should wait.

 

[Morkel]

Sometimes it's the way article is written, sometimes it's the mindset one has when reading an article. Whatever, Im simply going to wait to see the evidence tested before making a comment on this particular case. That said, I don't approve of illegal advantage gained through use of drugs but I do believe it is entirely plausible players could take supplements without thinking they were cheating. Trust is a funny thing and the most stunning example I can give is this: Which profession/person would a parent handover their 5 year old son and 7 year old daughter to without a second thought about the children and their safety ?

You may think a doctor, police officer something like that but amazingly parents do this everyday of the week. They will stand on the footpath and when the bus turns up they will simply usher them onto the bus, into the care of some person whom they've likely never met and certainly not checked their credentials. All on trust . It is not hard to imagine a 20 year old player in the company of a highly trained practitioner or trusted medico employed by the club trusting that person to only give the player something legal and safe. These are older men who doubtless would be confident and assured and equally adept at reassuring the player that all was well. What player would say in that situation, hold on, let me get this stuff independently tested and verified safe before taking it ?

Do parents get say down at the start of each school year, as the School Board hammers in to them that it's entirely possible that the bus drivers are pedo's, and despite their claims of being above-board may at any stage kidnap their children? NRL players get told that regardless of trust or best intentions, their club may try on some things that are not necessarily legit, and even if they are unaware of its legality they will be wholly responsible.

 

[Splinter]

A forward is going to take a six month ban starting next month (not sure if August or September). Looks like could be from a team in the eight
Wonder if he is going to spill the beans????????

 

[Nashy]

Lets see who gets injured.