THE COACH Poll: Should Kevin Walters be sacked?

[Xzei]

I do think injuries have played their part in results. I've been consistent in saying that all year. My issue has always been with our performance levels and execution. Thats always been my biggest issue with how we have gone this year.

@Jedhead alluded to this in regards to us as a club, but our foundations are pretty weak imo.

foundations will come with time,shit it took gould what 8 or 9 years to get the panthers set up for success?

 

[Wolfie]

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I do have trouble understanding how saying "they need the sack" is also evidence of "nobody is saying sack them" . This is another mind bender Wolfie! By the time I figure it out we might have just made it into the 8

I'm standing by that, if they have a mindset where they dont want to keep developing and evolving the club, then absolutely they need the sack. The key word you overlooked in the statement you quoted was IF. At the moment we dont really know where we stand in that regard do we, so i'm not calling for their heads yet. I'm sure i will if i feel they are standing still.

Not hard to understand really.

 

[Sproj]

I still don't think our club is in as bad a position as many of you seem to be implying and NO I'm not blind or overly optimistic.

If you break down a club in to its key components, it seems to me pretty clear the part of the club that is lacking and that is feeding across into other areas. Think about it this way:

Corporate: Firing, more members than ever and making a lot of money

Scouting and Development: Pretty good if you ask me and look, I get we should be looking for the legit squad level solid players more but you cannot deny we more often than not produce some absolute gun players, think the likes of Cobbo, Fifita, Haas, Staggs, Carrigan, Flegler, Farnworth, Nikorima, Walsh, Mozer, Black, Coates and so many more have come through our system, so we are producing high calibre players.

Public Relations: It is adequate, the club has stopped leaks and this is great but could do more in the social media / website space to engage better with fans

Coaching: This will be controversial but consider where we have come from just three years ago, this is like chalk and cheese and yes, it definitely needs to improve but Kevvie has clearly not lost the dressing room, the team has fight in it and we are getting new assistants, so something is being done to address the fall off this year - I don't think this is too bad and I know so many of you will shoot me down for this point but I don't care because it has come a long way since the Seibums debacle - Kevvie is still learning but has 2023 on the board

Recruitment and Retention: This is the issue and has been for ages. Why didn't we have Mam locked up much earlier than he was? It seems pretty clear he wanted to stay and we wanted him too, why did it take so long that he essentially became a free agent? Same as Farnworth. Flegler seemed to be a bit of a mercenary and was way overpaid here when he was younger and did not repay that faith at all. Haas was a circus and yes, a lot of that is on him and his management but not all of it. Why haven't we locked up Mozer, Willison, Staggs and/or Cobbo, etc with November pretty much around the corner? Why haven't we made any depth recruitment decisions? Why do we seem to sit on our hands so much when decent depth signings are available?

To me, recruitment and retention sticks out like a sore thumb as the biggest issue at the club. Even fitness, I put that down to a really disrupted preseason and a million injuries and I am sure will be much better next year.

 

[Manofoneway]

foundations will come with time,shit it took gould what 8 or 9 years to get the panthers set up for success?

The anti-fans on this forum have a tolerance of around 8 or 9 games before they call for the coaches head. In 8 or 9 years we will no longer need to call them Anti-fans, they will be dolphins fans!

 

[Wolfie]

foundations will come with time,shit it took gould what 8 or 9 years to get the panthers set up for success?

It took a while i agree. Nobody expects thing overnight, but at the same time, when you regress in pretty much every department in a 12 month span questions have to be asked.

You look at things Gus did at the Panthers, it wasnt all that complicated really. Its pretty common knowledge his whole plan was to focus on overhauling their development system. Thats where the bulk of his effort went and look at them now.

We are under the pump in that regard. Our junior development i dont believe is up to scratch. I agree with @Sproj, we develop some high calibre players, and i think they come here because of our past reputation, but we dont develop enough good players to come in when we inevitably lose some of our better ones. Imo, we seem to look at too many superstars and not enough good, solid first graders you can rely on.

Having the Phins in the NRL now is going to put more pressure on our system. They have a well developed and easily recognisable junior and pathways system to the NRL. I dont think our system, unless you are entrenched in junior football, is anywhere near as easy for parents identify where you go to be a Bronco. At Redcliffe, theoretically, you can take a 6 year old and put him through one system to play NRL footy. Get a group of them good enough, and then you have a situation like Penrith have now.

 

[Manofoneway]

We are under the pump in that regard. Our junior development i dont believe is up to scratch. I agree with @Sproj, we develop some high calibre players, and i think they come here because of our past reputation, but we dont develop enough good players to come in when we inevitably lose some of our better ones. Imo, we seem to look at too many superstars and not enough good, solid first graders you can rely on.

This is absolutely right. We really don't seem to have consistency in player development. Individuals come out of the system as good players but we seem to never have a backlog of props, halves, backrowers, backs etc. Do you think it's to do with the mantra that apparently they don't recruit to pathways program on particular positions, just the ability of the player?

 

[Xzei]

It took a while i agree. Nobody expects thing overnight, but at the same time, when you regress in pretty much every department in a 12 month span questions have to be asked.

You look at things Gus did at the Panthers, it wasnt all that complicated really. Its pretty common knowledge his whole plan was to focus on overhauling their development system. Thats where the bulk of his effort went and look at them now.

We are under the pump in that regard. Our junior development i dont believe is up to scratch. I agree with @Sproj, we develop some high calibre players, and i think they come here because of our past reputation, but we dont develop enough good players to come in when we inevitably lose some of our better ones. Imo, we seem to look at too many superstars and not enough good, solid first graders you can rely on.

Having the Phins in the NRL now is going to put more pressure on our system. They have a well developed and easily recognisable junior and pathways system to the NRL. I dont think our system, unless you are entrenched in junior football, is anywhere near as easy for parents identify where you go to be a Bronco. At Redcliffe, theoretically, you can take a 6 year old and put him through one system to play NRL footy. Get a group of them good enough, and then you have a situation like Penrith have now.

im sure the questions will be asked in the offseason just like every club and im probably going to get flamed for this but i like the barrett appointment i think he works well as an attack coach imo.
they def could be better with a clearer pathway to the broncos always thought having one side in all grades would make better sense,but i dont get paid the big bucks lol

 

[Wolfie]

This is absolutely right. We really don't seem to have consistency in player development. Individuals come out of the system as good players but we seem to never have a backlog of props, halves, backrowers, backs etc. Do you think it's to do with the mantra that apparently they don't recruit to pathways program on particular positions, just the ability of the player?

I'm not sure mate tbh. Because we were very much a one town club, in the past we could easily just go and grab the best juniors from local clubs pretty much at will. If we needed a back rower, we just went and looked for the best young back rower for example with little competition. These days, we not only have other Queensland clubs recruiting in our areas, we have NSW clubs and the Storm doing the same.

 

[Manofoneway]

I'm not sure mate tbh. Because we were very much a one town club, in the past we could easily just go and grab the best juniors from local clubs pretty much at will. If we needed a back rower, we just went and looked for the best young back rower for example with little competition. These days, we not only have other Queensland clubs recruiting in our areas, we have NSW clubs and the Storm doing the same.

YES! I got a like from Wolfie! He has been rolling his eyes at my posts for so long I began to think he was Bobby Boucher's dad!

But in all seriousness, I always thought it was weird that they didn't actual align young players to a position, just ability. What happens if you end up with like 10 props and no halfbacks..

 

[BroncsFan]

I dont think our system, unless you are entrenched in junior football, is anywhere near as easy for parents identify where you go to be a Bronco. At Redcliffe, theoretically, you can take a 6 year old and put him through one system to play NRL footy. Get a group of them good enough, and then you have a situation like Penrith have now.

For this last part I queried previously about whether the Broncos can look to lock in our current affiliates or some of the affiliates on really long deals.

Wynnum, Burleigh and Souths logan is a good spread geographically.

If we lock those teams into long term commitments and set it up to be partnership and beneficial for both parties... Broncos helping on funding to make those 3 locations elite for their level... then parents will identify the pathways to Broncos.

Brisbane via Wynnum, Logan via Souths and GC via Burleigh.

Hell could the Broncos pick up a BRL team in the middle of Brisbane with junior leagues and have that as a direct pathway??

I think what you're suggesting is that if a parent wants their kid to be noticed by Broncos then they need a beacon in the lower grades that they can put their kid into... because if it's not there then they need to be making junior rep teams to get noticed.

Looking at it at the moment it looks like we treat our affiliates more like daycare centres and just palm off guys inside the Top 30 for them to use if they want.

It doesnt really seem like a partnership.

 

[Wolfie]

For this last part I queried previously about whether the Broncos can look to lock in our current affiliates or some of the affiliates on really long deals.

Wynnum, Burleigh and Souths logan is a good spread geographically.

If we lock those teams into long term commitments and set it up to be partnership and beneficial for both parties... Broncos helping on funding to make those 3 locations elite for their level... then parents will identify the pathways to Broncos.

Brisbane via Wynnum, Logan via Souths and GC via Burleigh.

Hell could the Broncos pick up a BRL team in the middle of Brisbane with junior leagues and have that as a direct pathway??

I think what you're suggesting is that if a parent wants their kid to be noticed by Broncos then they need a beacon in the lower grades that they can put their kid into... because if it's not there then they need to be making junior rep teams to get noticed.

Looking at it at the moment it looks like we treat our affiliates more like daycare centres and just palm off guys inside the Top 30 for them to use if they want.

It doesnt really seem like a partnership.

I'm not sure if i would say a beacon, but it could be the word i'm looking for! Totally agree with our affiliates as it stands now, but i'm not as clued up on them as i used to be either.

The Dolphins system is streamlined, and easy to identify for parents as a system they can leave their kids in to get to the NRL. Really wish we had something like that.

 

[Dexter]

I'm not sure if i would say a beacon, but it could be the word i'm looking for! Totally agree with our affiliates as it stands now, but i'm not as clued up on them as i used to be either.

The Dolphins system is streamlined, and easy to identify for parents as a system they can leave their kids in to get to the NRL. Really wish we had something like that.

Def something in that, Dolphins will at some future point have an age group or 2 close together who all grow up together as mates and go into grade together like the Panthers. That's a bond that keeps a squad together taking slightly less to stay.

Redcliffe has always been a tight club like that. They put out a shirt with everyone who has played first grade printed on it with the number they were, like James Sandy number 324. It was a great gesture and nod to past players.

 

[BroncsFan]

I'm not sure if i would say a beacon, but it could be the word i'm looking for! Totally agree with our affiliates as it stands now, but i'm not as clued up on them as i used to be either.

The Dolphins system is streamlined, and easy to identify for parents as a system they can leave their kids in to get to the NRL. Really wish we had something like that.

It's something that the broncos should've been looking at a long time ago tbh, but to me it's an example of sitting on their hands.

Cherry picking the best from rep comps served us well... let's just keep doing that... Oh Cyril is gone now... that's fine just keep picking the biggest and fastest and we will be fine.

It's even evident there... what was the plan with Cyril getting older and older and eventually retiring ... the last player he identified was Bhunt... an all heart pure footy player... not necessarily the fastest or the strongest, but **** he is a player that absolutely gives his all on the field every game.

Those players have probably been few and fair between... Patty is a current example of that... I doubt he would've been the biggest and the fastest coming through, but he oozes leadership... beyond that it's the biggest and the fastest kids filling up our top 30.

Even in regards to the junior pathways and potential threat of Dolphins... it can come back to the question of "why did Brisbane have an appetite for the Dolphins in the first place?"... what could the broncos have been doing to get those current dolphins fans to be rusted on Broncos fans so there was no point for a Brisbane 2.0 because the market was all sewn up by Broncos... which it absolutely was in the 90's... all of Qld was basically broncos, but those days are long gone now.

Super League has definitely had an impact, but I think the introduction of the second Friday night game hasn't helped either... prior to that point the Sunday afternoon 4pm game was pretty much our locked in spot, but from that point on we were pretty much 7.30 Friday prime time.

The admin side of the club would love the change to Friday prime time, because it meant increased sponsorship dollars, but it's an absolute shocking timeslot for kids and families to attend... it can be a shocking timeslot for kids to even watch it on TV... and now Thursday night footy is an even worse timeslot for attendance and kids watching on TV, but still great for sponsorship dollars... so whilst we likely picked up a ton of sponsorship dollars through Thursday and Friday games there's also a very good chance that we lost a fair bit of connection to future generations coming through.

Opposition fans via Sydney media then started complaining about broncos getting favouritism from the prime time tv slot all the time... so the broncos turn into enemy number 1 across the league and have also barely played in family friendly timeslot since 2007.

Couple this with a lack of presence in junior footy (outside of rep teams) and no streamlined pathway to NRL and you could become pretty invisible to younger generations... and if you don't establish that connection early you could just be cherry picking mercenaries who have no loyalty to the club.

Kids born that year are turning 17 this year... If this has had an impact we could start to see that coming through pretty soon... are we already seeing it with promising juniors not choosing the broncos as much anymore or willing to move on for more money?

It seems like the emergence of Reece, Patty, etc. are starting to increase our fan interest amongst younger generations, but that's a decent gap that might need to be overcome... and we've had basically no success within that timeframe to otherwise attract younger fans to supporting the club.

 

[Foordy]

It's something that the broncos should've been looking at a long time ago tbh, but to me it's an example of sitting on their hands.

It's not sitting on their hands ... That implies that the club wants to make the changes, but haven't done so yet.

The club have no intention of making the change, they're in favour of the multiple feeder club strategy.

I'm not really sure the reasoning behind it. Personal I disagree with them. I'd much rather the Panthers / most NSW clubs pathway system.

 

[BroncsFan]

It's not sitting on their hands ... That implies that the club wants to make the changes, but haven't done so yet.

The club have no intention of making the change, they're in favour of the multiple feeder club strategy.

I'm not really sure the reasoning behind it. Personal I disagree with them. I'd much rather the Panthers / most NSW clubs pathway system.

I was talking more about presence in junior footy and that pathway from U6's to first grade that Wolfie talks about with the Dolphins.

I dont have too much of an issue with the multiple affiliates approach, but to me it looks very transactional and it looks like Broncos aren't bothered about chopping and changing them... which I think reinforces that separation between the Broncos and lower leagues across SEQld.

I'd be interested to know what Burleigh have been getting out of their affiliation with the Broncos.

Barely any Broncos play for them week to week, so what exactly do Burleigh and Burleigh fans get from being affiliated to the Broncos.

To me it looked like a massive opportunity for the Broncos... there's so many strong league schools in GC and we now have Burleigh sitting there because titans dropped the ball to an extent... and Burleigh are already a top club in Qcup.

If you get the Coates, Walsh, Mozer, etc. flocking towards Burleigh because of affiliation to Broncos then that's a pathway sitting in a massive league nursery. If they're starting at Burleigh then you dont need to find them and entice them at rep carnivals because they're already at one of your clubs.

That's potentially not how it's always going to work with so many going to PCB, Keebra Park, etc. but we're not affiliated to them either... and they'll have a junior club that they play for before or outside of the schools (Meninga Cup, etc.).

When Canberra were affiliated with Souths Logan it was hugely beneficial to them... there was a time there where Canberra had a pretty decent QLD presence purely due to that relationship with Logan... Papalii, Lee brothers, Milford, Leroyd-Lahrs??, etc.

We managed to get that one back, but it looks like we just chuck our top 30 there as ring-ins and potentially aren't helping with nurturing of talent in another massive catchment... which I think CS9 came through (Marsden wasnt it??).

These are the things that I think Wolfie is talking about... a clear presence in the junior grades where mums, dads and kids know that club is a Broncos club and it creates a connection with the club.

It may never create a new Lockyer, but it's a good chance of creating a bunch of Kobes, Jensens, Casey Maguires, Gillettes, Reeds, Opacics, etc. that provide solid Top 30 depth, flesh out top 17's and end up staying with the club because that's who they wanted to play for since U6's... and we've got 3 different affiliates that we could be nurturing that relationship with across a good geographic spread for potential Broncos recruits.

 

[davidp]

what most people forget is the QRL and the individual teams were dead against the Broncos having their own local team. The argument was that the local teams could not compete against the Broncos, and any "top" players would choose the Broncos because of the "easier" ride into the Broncos System.

This was well known a number of years ago, and I am sure some of the older (wiser) members of this forum would know this.

It would be interesting now to see if they could get this bias changed, as one team, one system would be better for our team and structure long term.

DP

 

[Sproj]

what most people forget is the QRL and the individual teams were dead against the Broncos having their own local team. The argument was that the local teams could not compete against the Broncos, and any "top" players would choose the Broncos because of the "easier" ride into the Broncos System.

This was well known a number of years ago, and I am sure some of the older (wiser) members of this forum would know this.

It would be interesting now to see if they could get this bias changed, as one team, one system would be better for our team and structure long term.

DP

Not much they can do about it now Redcliffe exists as an NRL side, no leg to stand on.

 

[McHunt]

I still don't think our club is in as bad a position as many of you seem to be implying and NO I'm not blind or overly optimistic.

If you break down a club in to its key components, it seems to me pretty clear the part of the club that is lacking and that is feeding across into other areas. Think about it this way:

Corporate: Firing, more members than ever and making a lot of money

Scouting and Development: Pretty good if you ask me and look, I get we should be looking for the legit squad level solid players more but you cannot deny we more often than not produce some absolute gun players, think the likes of Cobbo, Fifita, Haas, Staggs, Carrigan, Flegler, Farnworth, Nikorima, Walsh, Mozer, Black, Coates and so many more have come through our system, so we are producing high calibre players.

Public Relations: It is adequate, the club has stopped leaks and this is great but could do more in the social media / website space to engage better with fans

Coaching: This will be controversial but consider where we have come from just three years ago, this is like chalk and cheese and yes, it definitely needs to improve but Kevvie has clearly not lost the dressing room, the team has fight in it and we are getting new assistants, so something is being done to address the fall off this year - I don't think this is too bad and I know so many of you will shoot me down for this point but I don't care because it has come a long way since the Seibums debacle - Kevvie is still learning but has 2023 on the board

Recruitment and Retention: This is the issue and has been for ages. Why didn't we have Mam locked up much earlier than he was? It seems pretty clear he wanted to stay and we wanted him too, why did it take so long that he essentially became a free agent? Same as Farnworth. Flegler seemed to be a bit of a mercenary and was way overpaid here when he was younger and did not repay that faith at all. Haas was a circus and yes, a lot of that is on him and his management but not all of it. Why haven't we locked up Mozer, Willison, Staggs and/or Cobbo, etc with November pretty much around the corner? Why haven't we made any depth recruitment decisions? Why do we seem to sit on our hands so much when decent depth signings are available?

To me, recruitment and retention sticks out like a sore thumb as the biggest issue at the club. Even fitness, I put that down to a really disrupted preseason and a million injuries and I am sure will be much better next year.

Yeah, we're going great. Except for the team.