PRE-GAME Round 5 - Knights vs Broncos

[Wolfie]

If you take away Mago's four tries he has just been another forward in performance for Souths. No offloads in four games, 85m a game, 87 tackles at 88%.

Fai has improved and his defence is a lot better this year. 90% is a huge improvement. 11 tackle breaks and four offloads. He's a lot more involved and bigger impact.

Why does Haas need more time but Mago doesn't?

I dont particularly rate Mago at all.

 

[1910]

You tend to be very objective which is fine, but what's your opinion on this? Who needs to go if anyone? What would your 17 be?

Dargon is named at six this week for his first starting game so see how that goes. Forward wise Fai, Haas and Carrigan have been out best in the lower grades.

 

[_wwong]

Every time I see mago I think it's a typo for moga and start feeling anxiety

 

[pagey]

If you take away Mago's four tries he has just been another forward in performance for Souths. No offloads in four games, 85m a game, 87 tackles at 88%.

Fai has improved and his defence is a lot better this year. 90% is a huge improvement. 11 tackle breaks and four offloads. He's a lot more involved and bigger impact.

Why does Haas need more time but Mago doesn't?

Just figure mago is a bit older , may handle first grade better than haas. I could be completely wrong though .

 

[Super Freak]

Expect Bird to have a better game this week.

He was pretty filthy with himself for his effort against the Titans. Bird rarely puts in two bad performances in a row.

 

[Number6]

This is what I see happening, a really good performance. Everyone thinks they’re safe then they drop off again for the next game and the changes we need just won’t happen.

This would be the worst result probably. The issue is Broncs play crap then have a few wins that paper over the endemic issues. They all play just well enough not to be dropped or guys like sims are terrible then have a good game once a month or more. But we just have to show faith...

It’s like Mitch Marsh scoring the odd semi decent innings to just fail another 10 times. But he has potential.... after a hundred failures he might even fulfill it!

Hope for a small gritty win. Can’t bring myself to wish Broncs to lose but a cheap win will probably just hide the big problems and stroke some overinflated egos.

 

[1910]

Just figure mago is a bit older , may handle first grade better than haas. I could be completely wrong though .

Wouldn't be better to judge it on performance in the ISC?

 

[jarro65]

Expect Bird to have a better game this week.

He was pretty filthy with himself for his effort against the Titans. Bird rarely puts in two bad performances in a row.

It would be nice to think that he didn't have to go looking for the ball and that the ball found him .... regularly.

Both Bird and Roberts are being wasted out wide due to a stiffled game plan (IMO)

 

[pagey]

Wouldn't be better to judge it on performance in the ISC?

Maybe, but isc form dos'nt always result in better form in 1st grade for a player. Would love to see haas though, gotta be better than sims.

 

[Huge]

Doing that just means the defensive line will be set - even if they don't jump early, they'll still be up in our faces, so we'll still be battered and pushed back and make no ground on those first carries (or the carries for the rest of the set after that).

The point of the backs making one-out scoots is that even though they're generally not as strong as the forwards, they have better footwork, can normally get to ground quicker, and can spring up for a quick PTB while the defensive line is still retreating. Which in turn allows the next runner to get the ball on the front foot with a single short pass from dummy-half, and gain 10 metres before hitting the defensive line, and once again get a quick PTB and on from there. It's no surprise we missed Oates in this department as he'd make a good 15 metres, carry defenders, and then either get a quick PTB or earn a penalty if the defence hung on too long. Perfect to get the sets started off well.

The problem with that, as I've repeatedly pointed out is there are no options other than a single runner. That makes it really simple to defend. The fast ptbs you mention simply do not happen. That is a fantasy to support your position. The backs, generally lighter and more agile have two markers and a set defensive line. There are seldom quick ptbs, what tends to happen is a three or four man tackle because there are no other runners to consider. My view is when the first tackle has occurred the player takes his own sweet time rising and allowing three or more players to get onside to allow the dummy half to choose an option. Doing so ensures the defensive line has to be spread further afield to cover more players. Can you not see how easy it is to defend THE ONLY player who can receive the ball ?

 

[_wwong]

This would be the worst result probably. The issue is Broncs play crap then have a few wins that paper over the endemic issues. They all play just well enough not to be dropped or guys like sims are terrible then have a good game once a month or more. But we just have to show faith...

It’s like Mitch Marsh scoring the odd semi decent innings to just fail another 10 times. But he has potential.... after a hundred failures he might even fulfill it!

Hope for a small gritty win. Can’t bring myself to wish Broncs to lose but a cheap win will probably just hide the big problems and stroke some overinflated egos.

We had a small gritty win against the tigers. It was painful and didn't help one bit with the week after.

 

[Harry Sack]

Dargon is named at six this week for his first starting game so see how that goes. Forward wise Fai, Haas and Carrigan have been out best in the lower grades.

Name a team. From our current crop of what's available, including ISC, who would you name? You've named Fai, Haas and Carrigan above so I'd assume you'd have them in, form depending. Who goes?

 

[Morkel]

The problem with that, as I've repeatedly pointed out is there are no options other than a single runner. That makes it really simple to defend. The fast ptbs you mention simply do not happen. That is a fantasy to support your position. The backs, generally lighter and more agile have two markers and a set defensive line. There are seldom quick ptbs, what tends to happen is a three or four man tackle because there are no other runners to consider. My view is when the first tackle has occurred the player takes his own sweet time rising and allowing three or more players to get onside to allow the dummy half to choose an option. Doing so ensures the defensive line has to be spread further afield to cover more players. Can you not see how easy it is to defend THE ONLY player who can receive the ball ?

You do remember that the Storm revolutionised defence by wrestling, holding the player up, so their defensive line can reset and be ready to bounce off their line the moment the ball is played, right? And you're suggesting we need to just submit and let that happen?

Same for tunnel-balls. Rolling it straight back saved valuable fractions of a second that allows the hooker to dump it off to the runner before the defence can start to move off their line.

This isn't NFL where you have two set lines and each play resets it. And there's a reason for that - you can't pass forwards in League. Having options, multiple options on both sides might sound good but the reality is that every pass takes time, and is compounded by the distance that pass has to travel. It won't matter if you have a heap of options both sides of the ruck, if you've got a set defence coming at you it doesn't matter who gets the ball, they'll be swamped. The defensive line will only be stretched if they're made to mark up on your own runners if they're out wide, but again, the wider they are the longer it takes to get the ball out there. Swamped again. And with the defence in your face, there's the serious risk of dropped balls or even intercepts.

As for quick PTB's, which is it? Is it a fantasy? Is it "seldom"? I suggest you watch the outside backs on kick returns closer next time. There's a reason many of them don't just run full-steam at the defensive line. There is just as much merit in using footwork at the line to get between defenders - I don't mean through them - but avoid a front-on tackle so that they can get on their hands and knees quickly and get a quick PTB. Different techniques for different players, working to their strengths.

Fast play-the-balls are everything. The faster, the better. Just about every act of foul play that comes in to the game is designed to either speed up your own (tunnel-ball, not standing all the way up before playing it), or slowing down your opposition's (wrestling, flops, peeling off one-by-one, hand on the ball, crowding with your knees). To deliberately slow down your own ruck is, well, a Huge mistake.

 

[Unbreakable]

Maybe it's time to just throw Carrigan in there. We seemingly opted to let Arrow walk because we had a bigger wrap on Pat. I think we need another work horse in the starting lineup.

8. Lodge
9. McCullough
10. McGuire
11. Pangai Jr
12. Gillett
13. Carrigan

14. Glenn
15. Ofahengaue
16. Fai
17. Su'A

 

[1910]

Name a team. From our current crop of what's available, including ISC, who would you name? You've named Fai, Haas and Carrigan above so I'd assume you'd have them in, form depending. Who goes?

It's not that I'd put them in, I just said they're the best of the next level. I honestly don't think anyone is demanding in a ridiculous form way so really the 17 is pretty much as it currently is. Unless you picked some of those guys at ISC and they really stood up out of the box which you could for for potentially Thaiday.

I don't think there are too many changes you could make.

 

[Huge]

You do remember that the Storm revolutionised defence by wrestling, holding the player up, so their defensive line can reset and be ready to bounce off their line the moment the ball is played, right? And you're suggesting we need to just submit and let that happen?

Same for tunnel-balls. Rolling it straight back saved valuable fractions of a second that allows the hooker to dump it off to the runner before the defence can start to move off their line.

This isn't NFL where you have two set lines and each play resets it. And there's a reason for that - you can't pass forwards in League. Having options, multiple options on both sides might sound good but the reality is that every pass takes time, and is compounded by the distance that pass has to travel. It won't matter if you have a heap of options both sides of the ruck, if you've got a set defence coming at you it doesn't matter who gets the ball, they'll be swamped. The defensive line will only be stretched if they're made to mark up on your own runners if they're out wide, but again, the wider they are the longer it takes to get the ball out there. Swamped again. And with the defence in your face, there's the serious risk of dropped balls or even intercepts.

As for quick PTB's, which is it? Is it a fantasy? Is it "seldom"? I suggest you watch the outside backs on kick returns closer next time. There's a reason many of them don't just run full-steam at the defensive line. There is just as much merit in using footwork at the line to get between defenders - I don't mean through them - but avoid a front-on tackle so that they can get on their hands and knees quickly and get a quick PTB. Different techniques for different players, working to their strengths.

Fast play-the-balls are everything. The faster, the better. Just about every act of foul play that comes in to the game is designed to either speed up your own (tunnel-ball, not standing all the way up before playing it), or slowing down your opposition's (wrestling, flops, peeling off one-by-one, hand on the ball, crowding with your knees). To deliberately slow down your own ruck is, well, a Huge mistake.

No, once again you create a strawman to knock down. I described a particular position or point in a game to have a slow ptb. I didn't suggest we do it everywhere. It does make a difference if you have multiple options including spreading it two and three wide rather than when there is only a single player in a position to receive the ball. Naturally you avoid acknowledging what is obvious because you just cannot try to understand. You always try to muddy issues. Not every single time is a fast ptb desirable. A great example is often found at the end of a game while in possession and leading with a minute remaining. Fast ptbs are not "everything

 

[mitch222]

We missed oatesy last week with his returns on our own try line. Make fun of moga all you want but he was brilliant last year for us coming out of our own end with a one two punch with oatesy
I’m hoping bird can start to take over that one two punch role out of our end. It sets our set of six up dramatically

 

[_wwong]

No, once again you create a strawman to knock down. I described a particular position or point in a game to have a slow ptb. I didn't suggest we do it everywhere. It does make a difference if you have multiple options including spreading it two and three wide rather than when there is only a single player in a position to receive the ball. Naturally you avoid acknowledging what is obvious because you just cannot try to understand. You always try to muddy issues. Not every single time is a fast ptb desirable. A great example is often found at the end of a game while in possession and leading with a minute remaining. Fast ptbs are not "everything

I'd like to see teams attack with a set play when they rush back for a 20m restart. Most of the times it's the winger taking a quick tap only to run directly up the middle where all the opposition forwards were waiting due to their lack of kick chase. But where there is usually room is out wide because usually it's the outside backs who chase the kicks and struggle to get back on side when it's a quick tap. So a nice set play to move the ball wide would gain some nice territory. It'd be only in certain situations to exploit but you'd need smart halves and some practice at training to implement it.