That was the biggest rort in Origin history

[Anonymous person]

Mate, only you, your pals and Kaz feel that way. Yet you ignore Taylor and to a lesser degree Cronk and Slater, who with Thurston last night, have had crap games.

hahahahahaha classic "ive got no f'ing idea" porthoz. whos ignoring taylor? i want him gone. hes had enough chances and hes failed in every test put in front of him in origin. cronk and slater? wow. cronk had an excellent second half. he took control of the game and what happened? we had all the ball and got 5 drop outs and a try. slater played on with an injury that looks to keep him out for 4-8 weeks. even then he still kept coming back for more, made 200m+ with the ball, and defused every single bomb thrown his way.

thurston was rubbish last night, no doubt - we've said as much too. but hes not 78 years old and taking half an hour to stand back up after making a slow meandering ineffective hitup.

I totally disagree with that. Gillett at his best is as good as Taylor.

aaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

on the lockyer thing that people want to keep bringing up - i still stand by what i said back then that he didnt deserve to be there on form. we won 2008 without him, so why did he deserve to come back in to a winning side when he was playing poorly at club level? the fact that we won with him there doesnt even come into it. you guys dont seem to be able to separate the selection from the result. a win does not mean the best team was chosen. it just means they won.

also to those saying that all mcguire would add over civo is more metres. have you guys actually watched mcguire play? the guy makes a million tackles, and he wraps the ball up. he is EXACTLY what QLD needed last night and in game 1 - someone who can play big minutes in the middle of the field, tackling everything that moves, while still making good hitups. civo cant do any of those 3.

our go forward was shockingly bad in game 1. we made no ground at all, most sets wed be lucky to get 30m. same in the first half of game 2.

 

[OXY-351]

a win does not mean the best team was chosen. it just means they won.

Granted, but choosing a different team also doesn't mean that would have won though.

The fact is they did win with Lockyer in the team. You can't say with any certantity the team would have performed any better without him there - they may have actually peformed worse.

 

[Alec]

Dropping Civo for the last match would be beyond insane.

 

[Anonymous person]

Granted, but choosing a different team also doesn't mean that would have won though.

The fact is they did win with Lockyer in the team. You can't say with any certantity the team would have performed any better without him there - they may have actually peformed worse.

correct, i cant. but likewise people cant say that the fact that we won or even that he played well means that i was wrong in not thinking he should be picked.

oh and thanks rock for proving my point - when you agree with someone during origin time, it means theyre wrong. gillett at his best (that we've seen) is nowhere near Taylor at his best (that we've seen).

 

[anzac7]

Taylor is a mystery to me. He's 115kg, lightning quick, huge, strong as an ox...and yet he plays like a ****ing girl.

As I mentioned in another post - Taylor played better Origin when he had all the pressure of form and selection on him (when Tallas was talking him up and others were questioning his fitness). That urgency seems to have disappeared some what now and his performance is flying under the radar as he's not being pressured. Hopefully the QLD camp iron this out.

When he first played they were using him the way the Broncos were and Souths used to, good position running full pelt on the edges - haven't seen that done for a while (or exploited properly for a while). He needs to come off the bench the way Broncos and Souths used him in the past to have the most effect. Bring him off the bench with one successful hard break on the edges and could open up points with QLD good support play. Wrong decision to play him as part of the run on side - Parker would have been a better run on option.

 

[Alec]

Some of the form Gillett showed in his debut year was unbelievable. His ability to offload, his running game, his defence, his balls skills, his work ethic - IMO, at their peak, Gillett gets Taylor.

He hasn't shown it since unfortunately. Dunno what happened to him, why can't he play more like he has in his first year..

 

[Bucking Beads]

Problem is the way QLD have played this series hasn't been well suited to what Gillett or Taylor offer. I think NSW have been pretty good in defense of Thurston this series.

 

[Anonymous person]

Some of the form Gillett showed in his debut year was unbelievable. His ability to offload, his running game, his defence, his balls skills, his work ethic - IMO, at their peak, Gillett gets Taylor.

the problem with that argument is that taylor has all those things (well maybe not work ethic lol) but also has a handy little short kicking game. also taylor has one thing you cant teach - SIZE!

have you seen the games this year where he has just been near unstoppable for souths? did you see his last few games for the broncos?

dont get me wrong, last year gillett was very very good, and he will get even better. but everything gillett has done, taylor has done better.

 

[Porthoz]

the problem with that argument is that taylor has all those things (well maybe not work ethic lol) but also has a handy little short kicking game. also taylor has one thing you cant teach - SIZE!

have you seen the games this year where he has just been near unstoppable for souths? did you see his last few games for the broncos?

dont get me wrong, last year gillett was very very good, and he will get even better. but everything gillett has done, taylor has done better.

Man, you'll make a fool out of yourself just to try to be right... :rolleyes:

Gillett is the same height as Taylor and 104 Kgs, which isn't exactly small. Yes, he could spend a year raiding KFC to get to Taylor's size, but he'd probably loose his speed, which actually is something you can't "teach", unlike size. And speed is something where Gillett has Taylor well and truly covered.

So we've established Taylor can run over little men better, and Gillett is much faster.
Kicking game? Both have a relatively good kicking game for forwards.
Handling? As above, both have the advantage of having played in the halves for a period of their youth careers.
Offloads? Both have a dangerous offload, but while Gillett's generally find a team mate, Taylor's can land pretty much anywhere.
They're both okay under the high ball, but I'd say Gillett has a slight edge as he doesn't have to lift 122 Kgs when jumping.

In summary, they're pretty comparable in offense I'd say, although I personally prefer speed over size any time in a second rower!

Now let's talk defense, you know... the stuff that wins games and titles.
Oh wait, Taylor has no work ethic and is a liability. Gillett wins by KO in any aspect of the defense.

Game, set, match. :loser:

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

Taylor has played a much better and consistent year for souths than gillet has for the broncos tho, so theres that argument.

 

[Coxy]

Taylor has played a much better and consistent year for souths than gillet has for the broncos tho, so theres that argument.

Agreed. Gillett at his best is fantastic. Taylor at his best is better. They're equally sucky when they're off. The problem is neither is consistent.

I do think Gillett has the potential to be a better player than Taylor, and both will be part of the QLD team for a long time to come. But right now, I don't think Gillett is giving us value.

 

[Nashy]

And Taylor isn't exactly the slowest bloke at full steam.

 

[Porthoz]

Taylor has played a much better and consistent year for souths than gillet has for the broncos tho, so theres that argument.

My comparison is when both players are at their best. At clube level, there is no doubt that Gillett is not remotely close to his best, while Taylor is going full steam ahead at souths.

But that's my point exactly. If Taylor plays this crap in Origin when he's in career best form at club level, then I'd rather see Gillett there, who can only improve and is much less of a liability.

The difference for me, isn't even about footballing ability, it's about mentality and ethic. I don't think anyone can argue that there is no comparison possible.

And Taylor isn't exactly the slowest bloke at full steam.

True Nashy, but I doubt that Taylor would've been able to keep up with O'Neill over the lenght of the field as Gillett did in our game in Melbourne...

 

[Anonymous person]

Man, you'll make a fool out of yourself just to try to be right... :rolleyes:

Gillett is the same height as Taylor and 104 Kgs, which isn't exactly small. Yes, he could spend a year raiding KFC to get to Taylor's size, but he'd probably loose his speed, which actually is something you can't "teach", unlike size. And speed is something where Gillett has Taylor well and truly covered.

wait, what? do you have any facts whatsoever to back up your 'gillett is way faster than taylor' announcement? because taylor was always one of the quickest over the 40 at the broncos from what i remember. have you watched any souths games this season? hes sure got some speed on him. gillett is no slouch, but hes no rocket either. unless youve got something to back up your claim, its just you spouting more BS.

and 104kg is not 120kg or whatever taylor is. BIIIIIIIG difference.

So we've established Taylor can run over little men better, and Gillett is much faster.

we've done no such thing. well YOUVE done no such thing.

Kicking game? Both have a relatively good kicking game for forwards.

has gillett ever actually kicked a ball in first grade? has he chip chased to score tries? cause taylor certainly has.

They're both okay under the high ball, but I'd say Gillett has a slight edge as he doesn't have to lift 122 Kgs when jumping.

when we need second rowers to catch bombs then maybe that has some merit, if you could prove it that is, but until that time its pointless like the rest of the rubbish you come up with.

Now let's talk defense, you know... the stuff that wins games and titles.
Oh wait, Taylor has no work ethic and is a liability. Gillett wins by KO in any aspect of the defense.

Game, set, match. :loser:

have you actually watched a BRONCOS game this season? gillett has been absolutely woeful in defense hahahaha. you absolutely cannot be serious in saying that gillett wins anything defense related by KO, unless youre talking about allowing attackers to run right by him and score.

 

[Anonymous person]

I agree with Porthoz on all counts.

so it's agreed - he's wrong.

Taylor might leave a lot to be desired, but Gillett leaves more. He has been absolutely atrocious this year in defense.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

Yeh not too sure where the "gillett is orsm in defence" thing is coming from :S. confuses me since he has had a few shocking games in broncos colours of late

 

[anzac7]

Aside from the offensive defence (shoulder charges) Gillette showed earlier in the year (which have disappeared now - though did see one in the game last night), Anonymous person is right, his defence has left a lot to be desired. That game he played centre (I think vs Melbourne? Can't remember), well he missed that tackle which led to the try which won the other team the game in the remaining few minutes - was the most memorable defence lapse he had.

I would have to choose Taylor over Gillette if I had to but as I said in other posts, they are not using Taylor right and he has to come off the bench. Should have started Parker and left Taylor on the bench. Gillette will be a QLD great in the future though for sure.

 

[Porthoz]

Yeh not too sure where the "gillett is orsm in defence" thing is coming from :S. confuses me since he has had a few shocking games in broncos colours of late

Which part about "at his best" did you not understand?

Should've known better than to try to debate with AP, my bad...
:wall: