Your 2013 team.

[Mr Fourex]

True, pretty much every side has a left back rower, a right back rower and a middle/prop back rower. Most are nice enough to just name their lock that, but some try to be different, for whatever reason. I guess it makes sense how in the New Zealand match they dropped Myles to the bench when they finally realised both he and Gallen play the same role in the middle. Even Sheens can catch on eventually.

Actually ....Myles suffered or re-suffered a sternum injury at training in the lead up to the match.

 

[Big Pete]

I still hate Sheens' decision to drop Myles to the bench. Gallen is versatile and can play the fringe role. In fact, that's exactly what he was doing when he sent Boyd over for the match winner.

But yeah, locks tend to be players in the middle of the field.

 

[Huge]

Porthoz, I just can't agree with you about Dave Taylor and his attitude to defence. In one of Souths last regular season matches I saw him make 5 of the 6 tackles possible in a set(they kicked naturally) after having played the entire first half. This was in the second half. He does get stepped by nimble guys on occasion but who doesn't. Given his enormous bulk he is extremely light on his feet and is a good tackler. What I will agree with though is he has gone missing on occasion after copping a hard whack about the melon but truly, no way in the world is the man a 'pea-heart'. I respect your right to disagree with me but the evidence is there, he plays first grade and keeps getting picked in first grade by people are who employed to make those judgements. Just think you are a tad TOO tough on him !!

 

[Big Pete]

I lost a lot of respect for Taylor after his bog ordinary performances for Queensland.

Gillett is in a similar camp but Matty was never billed as the next Artie.

 

[Huge]

Look..I actually agree that Taylor lost ground and in no way am I a huge fan ! I just reckon Porthoz was harsh. The guys (taylor) got more guts than me and way more talent as footballer though I think I've got him surrounded intellectually !!He has heart but, yeh, he went backwards this year although it's not his fault he was labelled the next Artie beetson

 

[Big Pete]

It's not his fault, I was just making the point Taylor has been blessed with a lot of talent and was groomed for success. He hasn't taken the opportunity with both hands, which is his fault and his off-field discipline leaves a lot to be desired.

Mind you, the point of the comment was to pre-empt another comparison.

And while I'm apparently in a disagreeable mood, I actually thought Taylor's club form was as good as I've seen it. It's about on par with 09 for me, more consistent but didn't hit as many highs in the big games.

His biggest problem is that he's the Rugby League equivalent of a flat track bully. Goes well when the team is on top and can provide icing on the proverbial cake but when the opposition are playing a physical style he's prone to making poor decisions or going missing. It's obviously mental and I'd say it has to do with a lack of 'ticker'.

He's basically a bigger more skilled version of Carlaw.

 

[Porthoz]

Wait a second there, let's put this in perspective.

Anyone who plays in the NRL is obviously tough, no doubt about it, because I would hate to be tackled by the smallest of them.
I am talking about what Dave Taylor is as compared to other NRL players, and especially to what he could be. Imagine him having that size, ability and talent, but with the heart of a Dallas Johnson or Nathan Friend...!

 

[Huge]

No disagreement. When I wrote backwards this year it was a nod to the fact he was dropped from SOO and not so much the club form which was good overall. It will take, at least for me, one more season in which he fails to be consistent before I will put him in the same bracket as Carlaw. Incidentally, I note Carlaw still plays which indicates to me the man has some heart. Afterall, he certainly cannot be on big money in the local league so I guess he just loves playing. I hold out hope for Taylor and would love to see him fulfill his promise.QLD can always use a great player.

 

[Huge]

BTW Porthoz...thanks for the posting video advice ! Worked a treat, appreciate it.

 

[Coxy]

My 2c worth:

1. Hoffman is not a pea heart. He had his confidence shattered this season, and that impacted his effort late in the season. Him coming out and saying that is courage, not weakness. It'd be weakness to lie to everyone, including himself, and say "I gave it everything I had". The first step to fixing a problem is acknowledging it.

2. Taylor is a fairweather hero. When the going is good, he's awesome. When it gets tough, he goes MIA. He needs to swallow a can or two of cement and NTFU. He's Dane Carlaw mark 2 - built like Tarzan crossbred with the Hulk, but plays like Jane crossbred with Urkel. He should be terrorising teams week in, week out, but it's only the weaker teams he excels against. He's too easily intimidated. He also eats too many pies.

3. I think Hook has a tough decision to make with how to use Gillett and Thaiday in 2013. Thaiday likes to think of himself as a wide running damaging back rower, but the reality is, his hands are shithouse. Gillett is a natural ball player who can also run. He struggled in 2012 IMO from trying too hard to show how good he is, and with his moving around the team (including QLD) he didn't get a feel for where he "belongs". IMO, his best position is right fringe, and he's best used off the bench when the defence is starting to tire. So I'd be using Thaiday to start on the right fringe. Come off after 20-25 minutes for Gillett, who stays on for the remainder. Thaiday becomes part of the prop rotation.

 

[Huge]

Coxy..don't you think describing someone who plays frontrow for a local team,has played for the worlds best team,the greatest state, and the worlds best league playing nation as weaker than a giant who is 'easily intimidated', 'eats too many pies' is a massive statement ? Look, I know it is an opinion and, yes you are entitled to it but the inference you'd draw after reading it is this, that you are harder and braver than either Carlaw or Taylor. That you, if you were them would be so much better than them. I simply don't believe you are braver or tougher than them. By all means say they haven't reached your expectations but saying they are soft when both have played for the Broncos,Queensland and Australia is plainly wrong.

 

[Coxy]

Coxy..don't you think describing someone who plays frontrow for a local team,has played for the worlds best team,the greatest state, and the worlds best league playing nation as weaker than a giant who is 'easily intimidated', 'eats too many pies' is a massive statement ? Look, I know it is an opinion and, yes you are entitled to it but the inference you'd draw after reading it is this, that you are harder and braver than either Carlaw or Taylor. That you, if you were them would be so much better than them. I simply don't believe you are braver or tougher than them. By all means say they haven't reached your expectations but saying they are soft when both have played for the Broncos,Queensland and Australia is plainly wrong.

When commenting on NRL players, one is judging them against their contemporaries, not ourselves. Compared to other players who perform similar roles to Taylor, he is as soft as a marshmallow. End of story.

If a prerequisite to criticise an NRL player's heart was that you need to be a current or former NRL player then none of us would be able to comment, would we?

 

[Huge]

No, that is not what I wrote as you know. That's a childlike argument. What I am saying is yes, compared to some ,Taylor and Carlaw were not as good/brave. I think Danny Nutley was harder and braver than those two but only by comparison. They are brave men/hard men when compared to us mere mortals. They are tougher and braver than most people actually who simply could not stand up to the batterings they have received. Describing them as soft as marshmallow is a joke, a total over the top description. Both men were tough enough to play for the teams mentioned, the best teams on the planet, how,even by comparison can they be described as soft ?. By comparison with most players both those men were in the top couple of percent.

So by comparison or by any other measure, their achievements indicate that they were at least there or thereabouts. Criticism is fair and can rightfully be leveled by anyone with an interest but denigration when not fit to carry their luggage is a joke.

 

[m1c]

Agreed that Hook needs to work something out, but I'm very much in the pro-Thaiday on the edge camp.

When we were absolutely killing it our right side was our strength - He was an integral part of that. I'm going to call it a straight out fact - ball in hand, he's one of, if not the best decision maker in the club. Gillett may seem a natural talent, however he does not have the experience, need the responsibility nor is he anywhere near possessing the decision making skills of Sam.

Pushing Thaiday into the prop rotation completely overlooks what is arguably his strength - running and ball playing - I just don't think we have the luxury of inhibiting such skills post Locky.

Sam's not super through the middle either - does a job in defence and can get a quick play the ball, however he's certainly not automatic rep selection like he is when playing on the right fringe.

I'm sure Glenn Stewart could quite easily play in the middle third as well, however Manly are smart enough to keep him where he is most effective.

I feel so strongly about this that I'd even be prepared to let Gillett go so we could buy another middleman to ensure Thaiday doesn't have to do the job.

 

[Kimlo]

I'm with m1c on this, Thaiday is so much better on the edge and with his shoulder fixed for next year he should return to his damaging best.

 

[Porthoz]

As crap as his second year may have been, letting Gillett go would a massive mistake. :scared:

As for Thaiday, he's one of the best, if not the best second rower in the comp when in form and fit, so he gets to play in his best position, which is the right fringe. That's the reason I would have Gillett at Lock, where he would defend, while having more liberty to roam in attack and utilise his ball playing skills.

Regardless, the second row is certainly the area where the Broncos have the least to worry about...

 

[subsbligh]

1. Hoffman
6. Norman
7. Prince

14. Wallace

Hunt gets squeezed out

 

[Porthoz]

With this new development...

1- Norman
2- Copley
3- Reed
4- Hodges
5- Yow Yeh
6- Wallace
7- Prince
8- Hannant
9- McCullough
10-McGuire
11-Glenn
12-Thaiday
13-Parker

14- Hunt
15- Hala
16- Dodds
17- Gillett

I'd prefer to see Hunt hone his skills in Qcup, but chances are we will end up losing him anyway...