Your 2013 team.

[vertigo]

6. Wallace
7. Prince

As if it will be anything other than that. Would've gone gangbusters 5 years ago, hopefully they conjure up some form.

 

[noisetheory]

wallace will go good with an experienced/leader half.

hopefully norman will go to FB i just see so much more potential for him there. kciking game. great ball runner. just needs to harden up and grow up a little which im sure they are working on

 

[Old Mate]

We'll see the best of Wal if Princey gets his motor running.

 

[noisetheory]

i think prince will come with a renewed energy for the game. so much potential in our side. crowds that show up to the stadium. it will be a big change from the crap that was the titans

 

[Coxy]

I might be a bit left field with this, but...

1. Hoffman
2. Maranta
3. Norman
4. Hodges
5. Copley
6. Wallace
7. Prince
8. Hannant
9. McCullough
10. McGuire
11. Glenn
12. Thaiday (c)
13. Parker

14. Reed
15. Gillett
16. Hala
17. Dodds

Reed there to provide back row cover if necessary, or move into the centres, Norman to five-eighth, Wallace to dummyhalf to give Macca a breather.

I think Norman is actually best used running on the fringes, and outside Glenn he's likely to find some space. Reed, well, I was disappointed with what he provided in 2012, not helped by injury, but I think he provides versatility off the bench.

Sadly it means Ben Hunt misses out on the 17, but I don't see the point in having a backup hooker specifically anymore, and with the structure there you can cover him without wasting a bench spot. Wallace makes a good backup hooker because he'd provide crisp service and you can depend on him defensively, even if it's just for a short 10 minute spell there. But we should be grooming Macca to play 80.

 

[GCBRONCO]

I might be a bit left field with this, but...

1. Hoffman
2. Maranta
3. Norman
4. Hodges
5. Copley
6. Wallace
7. Prince
8. Hannant
9. McCullough
10. McGuire
11. Glenn
12. Thaiday (c)
13. Parker

14. Reed
15. Gillett
16. Hala
17. Dodds

Reed there to provide back row cover if necessary, or move into the centres, Norman to five-eighth, Wallace to dummyhalf to give Macca a breather.

I think Norman is actually best used running on the fringes, and outside Glenn he's likely to find some space. Reed, well, I was disappointed with what he provided in 2012, not helped by injury, but I think he provides versatility off the bench.

Sadly it means Ben Hunt misses out on the 17, but I don't see the point in having a backup hooker specifically anymore, and with the structure there you can cover him without wasting a bench spot. Wallace makes a good backup hooker because he'd provide crisp service and you can depend on him defensively, even if it's just for a short 10 minute spell there. But we should be grooming Macca to play 80.

Actually Coxy I quite like it and I myself have considered Norman's worth as a potential centre, if Gillett can get back his form then him and Reed would certainly off some real impact from the bench, Hala has to be on the bench as for Dodds his probably the only one on the bench you have named that you could argue for other players but I'd be happy for him to start with.

Maranta definitely needs to be rewarded for his efforts this season, during a dismal team performance in the 2nd half of the season he was one of the better and consistent performers for the side and I thought was very unlucky not to remain there when Copley returned. I'm not keen to rush Yow Yeh back even when his got the approval to return, a healthy stint in the Queensland Cup to get his confidence up is required, which gives us also the opportunity to look at other options should he fail to make a successful return.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Norman in the centres... That could be fun. :scared:

 

[Big Pete]

Certainly outside the box and while there was word that Henjak was toying with the idea before he was sacked (might say something :laugh:) I don't see it as a long term solution. I don't see him as an improvement on Reed and I don't think it suits his style of play really.

At full strength, Norman is either at fullback or not in the side at all.

I've said it before, but if he keeps improving, I can see Copley becoming a very handy centre.

 

[GCBRONCO]

Certainly outside the box and while there was word that Henjak was toying with the idea before he was sacked (might say something :laugh:) I don't see it as a long term solution. I don't see him as an improvement on Reed and I don't think it suits his style of play really.

At full strength, Norman is either at fullback or not in the side at all.

I've said it before, but if he keeps improving, I can see Copley becoming a very handy centre.

I wouldn't say it doesn't suit his style of play his definitely a ballrunner, its not really out of the box as made out to be for 5/8th's to play centre in their careers and be successful, Brett Kenny(and I'm not comparing Norman to Kenny lol at a player quality level lol) is a good example of a 5/8th that could adapt easily to playing in the centres throughout his career. Having said that I'm not against him playing at fullback but if your going to do that, I'd like to see a player like Whitchurch on the bench as the second backrower on the bench, we need someone to step up to fill the hole with Te'os departure so I'd like to see Reed or someone like Whitchurch get that role.

 

[Big Pete]

I was just thinking the other day what happened to five eights playing in the centres. The reality is the game has changed so much there is really on a rare few who can do it these days (eg. Lyon) but it rarely pans out (eg. Gasnier, Lawrence, Ayshford, whoever Sheens thought could play five eigth etc.). I consider centre the most difficult position to learn and play and while Norman potentially could do it he'd have to take on a completely different approach and if the point of having him in the side is for long term gain then I don't see the point. Especially when there are superior alternatives.

We don't HAVE to replace Te'o either. Playing two fringe runners is fairly unconventional and with Civoniceiva gone I can see us reverting to a basic 2 props, backrow & utility formation. With that said, Whitchurch or Oates could fill that role if need be.

 

[Alec]

I'd like to see Norman being developed as a back rower (if not a fullback). He could be like Wade Graham, not very good in the halves, but really comes into his own in the forwards, where it's running first, ball playing second.

 

[GCBRONCO]

I was just thinking the other day what happened to five eights playing in the centres. The reality is the game has changed so much there is really on a rare few who can do it these days (eg. Lyon) but it rarely pans out (eg. Gasnier, Lawrence, Ayshford, whoever Sheens thought could play five eigth etc.). I consider centre the most difficult position to learn and play and while Norman potentially could do it he'd have to take on a completely different approach and if the point of having him in the side is for long term gain then I don't see the point. Especially when there are superior alternatives.

We don't HAVE to replace Te'o either. Playing two fringe runners is fairly unconventional and with Civoniceiva gone I can see us reverting to a basic 2 props, backrow & utility formation. With that said, Whitchurch or Oates could fill that role if need be.

Personally I don't find centre to be that difficult to adapt to in the modern game infact outside of being more athletes then previous generations of centres very little has changed and given the same level of fitness the quality centres of the 80s to the early 2000's the majority of those quality centres would match their modern counterparts, infact if any position has changed the most and more difficult to adapt to to really excel at its fullback in the modern era, the real talented fullbacks are much more then just ball returners and support players, much more ballplaying involved now.

And well you don't have to replace Te'o yes, but then your relying a lot on Gillett to step up and with the possibility he does theres also the possibility he doesn't and I prefer to develop another backrower for the future and theres room for that, also it gives you more options from the bench to your prop and secondrower rotation when you have a player like Parker capable of shifting to the frontrow.

 

[m1c]

The problem with playing at 3 or 4 is that you need to be a good decision maker in defence - something Norman certainly isn't. He can tackle OK, he just makes horrendous reads.

Pending how he develops at 6 or 1 over 2013/14, I too think his future may lie as an edge backrower. He's got quite a big frame and with an offseason could easily put on the requisite KGs.

T'eo was useful for us as he could play both tight and wide effectively. Sometimes, however, I couldn't help but think having to share two edge backrow positions between 4 - whilst all quality players - was actually detrimental to our individual and team performance.

 

[GCBRONCO]

The problem with playing at 3 or 4 is that you need to be a good decision maker in defence - something Norman certainly isn't. He can tackle OK, he just makes horrendous reads.

Pending how he develops at 6 or 1 over 2013/14, I too think his future may lie as an edge backrower. He's got quite a big frame and with an offseason could easily put on the requisite KGs.

True defence reading isn't one of his strongest points but then I find that equally important if your going to put him into that edge backrower role as well and to be quite frank regardless of who is where, defence is an area we need to work hard on this season, we were pretty damn soft from out wide and into the middle with the current options there.

 

[Dexter]

The problem with playing at 3 or 4 is that you need to be a good decision maker in defence - something Norman certainly isn't. He can tackle OK, he just makes horrendous reads.

I reckon his misreads can be put down to not wanting to make the hard tackles, he is still young and may overcome any hesitance he has but he doesn't like the collision.

 

[Big Pete]

Personally I don't find centre to be that difficult to adapt to in the modern game infact outside of being more athletes then previous generations of centres very little has changed and given the same level of fitness the quality centres of the 80s to the early 2000's the majority of those quality centres would match their modern counterparts, infact if any position has changed the most and more difficult to adapt to to really excel at its fullback in the modern era, the real talented fullbacks are much more then just ball returners and support players, much more ballplaying involved now.

I'd almost go as far to say the fullback role has taken over some of the responsibilities centres or locks had. One of the biggest differences today and say the 80s is just how flat the players stand these days. In the 80s, the backline could almost be 20m+ behind the play which would enable the centres to act like playmakers if need be which is why Kenny, Daley & Fittler were so effective in their roles. In modern times, the only position that really provides shape and depth is fullback. They've virtually taken that role from the centres of the past which is why you're seeing more halves (Lockyer, Hornby, Bowen, Barba, Coote, Dugan etc.) go back and forth between the positions. Believe it or not, there was even talks of Hoffman wanting to play five eigth earlier this year!

As m1c pointed out, there's a lot of complexities involved at centre which require specialist training and I just don't think it's worth it. Centre is a bloody difficult position to stand out in attack (running good lines, timing runs, setting up outside men, covering your wing for a bomb, defensive decisions etc.) and I just don't think Norman will pick up on all of them.

I really don't think Norman has that great a running game to begin with. Decent foot-work, scored a good-try against the Cows but that was virtually it.

As far as the bench, there's plenty of ways to skin the cat or so to speak. I would just rather we blood another prop because our backrow stocks are good as is and one more could lead to too many chefs in the kitchen (which it did at times this year). Props need more attention too, after Hannant & McGuire it gets a bit ugly.

 

[vertigo]

Props need more attention too, after Hannant & McGuire it gets a bit ugly.

Good point, Anderson and Dodds aren't much chop and Lui is a passenger.

Hala could be our Kasiano but we should be developing another prop like you said, is Gibb purely a second rower?

 

[m1c]

Agreed BP, it gets super ugly after those two. We really miss Sims in that respect, had he stayed with us it would be this year he'd begin to push for a starting spot through the middle (none of this edge business like he fell into at the Cows).

It's concerning given 2012 was marred by frequent lapses when our benchies got onto the park. Alternatively, the exuberance of youth could be the solution.