Andrew Johns named eighth immortal

[broncos4life]

I don't care if it was performance enhancing or not, I care that he took an illegal substance while an elite athlete and it seems to have been ignored completely. I also care about the racial comments he is said to have made while a member of the NSW coaching staff.

I care that it appears to be acceptable to be a complete and utter **** head off the field and still be rewarded. I care that the lesson shown here to my kids is that as long as you play really good football, You can get away with anything you want off field. I don't want that lesson being portrayed.

Thank you! This is exactly my point!

 

[broncos4life]

No Nashy.it's not me who has the problem...and it's why people like me would get the gig of running the country long before knee jerkers such as your self...you cannot separate that which is important from that which is not. Your bias stops you from understanding what is important. You have this strange view that what you think is totally correct, all the time whereas I'm prepared to be wrong about things. I accept both sides of the coin. I never said drugs are okay although they are used widely in society,both legally and otherwise. This has been the case since time began for us.

A free society is one based on the principle that we are free to make choices......and your version is as close to the Taliban style as it can be and still exist in a democratic society.

You have completely missed the point. This isn't about Taliban rule of free choices. Joey can make whatever choice he wants, the issue is him being rewarded for these choices and the message it sends.

 

[Huge]

Actually I totally agree about the message sent that if you play well and are a total f..kup off the field you can still have your cake and eat it. I do NOT approve of Johns behavior off the field but am a firm believer in second chances. I believe he suffered a great deal for his indiscretions and was publicly vilified and humiliated. I also think that managers and management,fellow players,nightclub owners/managers and hoar bag women each played a part. You see, when you fall into bad ways the people around you who facilitate your fall have,in some part at least, some culpability. I don't think a young man has the skills(generally) to make great choices all the time. That is why I do not expect a young man,simply because he is an elite athlete, to have the wisdom and maturity of a 60 year old.

What Johns did in his own time is totally understandable,not brilliant but something you can understand. His actions are hardly new and the elite athlete,role model thing is a total crock of shit. That line is pedalled simply because people are hurt and disappointed that a public figure has failed to perform to some ridiculous standard. We,society is getting it wrong. We should expect the same frailty in our athletes as we do when asked to judge our own children. The moral high horse sickens me, being so hypocritical . i know were people to sit in judgement of their own children, when they do the same things as people like Johns have done ,then a very different set of expectations would apply. That is a mature viewpoint and a very realistic viewpoint too.

That said I judge Johns the same way I would if it were my own son who had 'sinned' as he did.

 

[broncos4life]

Actually I totally agree about the message sent that if you play well and are a total f..kup off the field you can still have your cake and eat it. I do NOT approve of Johns behavior off the field but am a firm believer in second chances. I believe he suffered a great deal for his indiscretions and was publicly vilified and humiliated. I also think that managers and management,fellow players,nightclub owners/managers and hoar bag women each played a part. You see, when you fall into bad ways the people around you who facilitate your fall have,in some part at least, some culpability. I don't think a young man has the skills(generally) to make great choices all the time. That is why I do not expect a young man,simply because he is an elite athlete, to have the wisdom and maturity of a 60 year old.

What Johns did in his own time is totally understandable,not brilliant but something you can understand. His actions are hardly new and the elite athlete,role model thing is a total crock of shit. That line is pedalled simply because people are hurt and disappointed that a public figure has failed to perform to some ridiculous standard. We,society is getting it wrong. We should expect the same frailty in our athletes as we do when asked to judge our own children. The moral high horse sickens me, being so hypocritical . i know were people to sit in judgement of their own children, when they do the same things as people like Johns have done ,then a very different set of expectations would apply. That is a mature viewpoint and a very realistic viewpoint too.

That said I judge Johns the same way I would if it were my own son who had 'sinned' as he did.

Ok CF what consequences has he recieved? He still has a media job, much more respect than he deserves, and now gets to be classed as an immortal.

As for second chances, how many does he get? After all the drugs stuff he then goes and racially vilifies someone, and once again that's cool... The guy can do no wrong.

 

[broncos4life]

Actually I totally agree about the message sent that if you play well and are a total f..kup off the field you can still have your cake and eat it. I do NOT approve of Johns behavior off the field but am a firm believer in second chances. I believe he suffered a great deal for his indiscretions and was publicly vilified and humiliated. I also think that managers and management,fellow players,nightclub owners/managers and hoar bag women each played a part. You see, when you fall into bad ways the people around you who facilitate your fall have,in some part at least, some culpability. I don't think a young man has the skills(generally) to make great choices all the time. That is why I do not expect a young man,simply because he is an elite athlete, to have the wisdom and maturity of a 60 year old.

What Johns did in his own time is totally understandable,not brilliant but something you can understand. His actions are hardly new and the elite athlete,role model thing is a total crock of shit. That line is pedalled simply because people are hurt and disappointed that a public figure has failed to perform to some ridiculous standard. We,society is getting it wrong. We should expect the same frailty in our athletes as we do when asked to judge our own children. The moral high horse sickens me, being so hypocritical . i know were people to sit in judgement of their own children, when they do the same things as people like Johns have done ,then a very different set of expectations would apply. That is a mature viewpoint and a very realistic viewpoint too.

That said I judge Johns the same way I would if it were my own son who had 'sinned' as he did.

Who is being hypocritical? I haven't done drugs or been a racist and I do not support this behaviour when others do it, so how am I being hypocritical or on my moral high horse by judging johns?

For someone who hates the 'high horse' you certainly don't mind riding the 'I'm older than you so my opinion is better considered' line

 

[Huge]

The high horse I referred to was not necessarily about you, rather the moral high horse so many ride. That is paranoid thinking on your part. At no stage did I support racism or drug taking and most certainly did not accuse you of those things. Again with the paranoia. I am older,lived longer and seen much more as a consequence. The delusion you seem to be suffering from is as follows...What I think is right ergo all others are wrong. I'm sure you won't understand this but,have you ever wondered why there are no 20 year old Presidents,Prime Ministers,High Court Judges or CEOs.....doubtless you'd be immature enough to think the world would be a better place if there were...and by the way,it's i before e except after C although there are exceptions to that rule !!!

{Ok CF what consequences has he recieved?}

 

[Browny]

Compare what happened to Joey to his brother

 

[broncos4life]

The high horse I referred to was not necessarily about you, rather the moral high horse so many ride. That is paranoid thinking on your part. At no stage did I support racism or drug taking and most certainly did not accuse you of those things. Again with the paranoia. I am older,lived longer and seen much more as a consequence. The delusion you seem to be suffering from is as follows...What I think is right ergo all others are wrong. I'm sure you won't understand this but,have you ever wondered why there are no 20 year old Presidents,Prime Ministers,High Court Judges or CEOs.....doubtless you'd be immature enough to think the world would be a better place if there were...and by the way,it's i before e except after C although there are exceptions to that rule !!!

{Ok CF what consequences has he recieved?}

Firstly why are you calling me CF? Your name is Compound Fracture???

This is a discussion group. While people are going to have different points of view and opinions that doesn't mean the need to be given a lecture in the condescending manner that you do so well.

As far as the constant grammar lesson, I am on my phone so there will be spelling mistakes and sometimes I use slightly wrong word, my apologies. In my opinion it's pretty pathetic to not actually address the opinion posed but instead just critique someone's comment like an English professor, but hey we're all different.

Anyway you are obviously far more mature and wiser, so well done, you win and you can have the thread to yourself.

 

[Porthoz]

No Nashy.it's not me who has the problem...and it's why people like me would get the gig of running the country long before knee jerkers such as your self...you cannot separate that which is important from that which is not. Your bias stops you from understanding what is important. You have this strange view that what you think is totally correct, all the time whereas I'm prepared to be wrong about things. I accept both sides of the coin. I never said drugs are okay although they are used widely in society,both legally and otherwise. This has been the case since time began for us.

A free society is one based on the principle that we are free to make choices......and your version is as close to the Taliban style as it can be and still exist in a democratic society.

Your version is as close to anarchy as it can be and still exist in democracy. The funny thing with anarchists, is that they tend to believe that everyone should be free to make their own choices, as longs as it doesn't oppose theirs... Actually, they will force their choices regardless of the impact these may have on others.

I tend to agree with you that older people make better leaders, because of the experienced gained throughout their lives. This however, does not trump what their core beliefs are and what they preach. This to say that by the sample so far, I would always vote for a 20 y/o Nashy as opposed to a 60 y/o Compound Fracture. And yes, this is coming from someone old enough to be wise, even if only by the fact that men and/or women younger than me were elected president or prime minster!

Your premise that someone should be praised and rewarded for having talent, regardless of his behavior off the field, is morally reprehensible.
Whether you like it or not, top notch athletes are examples for the youth in our society, because they often achieve the goals most of us aim to achieve. As such, they are the elite to whom the society in general looks up.
But with that status comes the price of becoming an example to the future generation. Whether my 17 y/o son becomes an NRL star, a doctor, a political leader or a laborer, it is of the utmost importance that he understands the cost of screwing up is not being rewarded with immortal status!

Call me an hypocrite if you want, because I did my fair share of teenage idiotic stuff, including smoking more than a few joints, and I have now been rewarded with a pretty good job and position, but unlike Johns, I did do the hard miles with study, apprenticeship and lots of work to get where I am.

How does Johns deserve the immortal status more than a Mal Meninga, or even a Shane Webcke, whose status off the field deserves as much praise as on the field, while not being blessed with anywhere near the same talent as Johns?

P.S. It's "how could that HAVE happened", not "how could that of happened". Just saying...

 

[Coxy]

No need to argue with CF. He's shown he doesn't care about society's standards. If it's ok by his moral compass then it should be ok by everyone's.

He's not an opinion to heed when it comes to assessment of character. He'd probably defend Adrian Bailey of just aggressively pursuing a chick on a night out.

 

[Porthoz]

Oh, come on Coxy. You should've just said "yeah, what porthoz said" :001_tt2:

 

[Bucking Beads]

I know when the AFL induct players into it's hall of fame they make people with poor off field records wait much longer to be inducted as opposed to the the clean skin types.

 

[Coxy]

What porthoz said :-P

 

[Huge]

broncos4life....the last line are your words. I was not referring to my self. Surprised you did not recognize them as you had just written them. Porthoz, you wrote 'Your premise that someone should be praised and rewarded for having talent, regardless of his behavior off the field, is morally reprehensible'...........wtf...when did I write that, or even infer that ????

Truly, talk about drawing a long bow. Anarchists indeed !! That I should want all people treated as I would like myself to be treated is so offensive to you. How noble of you Porthoz you filthy druggo. You should be held up to ridicule for your reprehensible drug use. Freely admitting to the same behaviors as Johns and then, having the temerity to justify it because you 'worked hard'..lol.....

No,I don't actually think you are a filthy druggo and low life but in all honesty how can you throw mud ????

The elite athlete does not embody the goals of most people in actual fact, far from it. Most peoples goal is firstly to be happy, then to make others happy(and by extension,loved/liked) to be successful generally(not specifically in the narrow field of sport) and hopefully pass on their genes through their children. They are the most common goals of people throughout the world. The fact that so many get fixated on elite athletes is a sad indictment of a society that is misguided. An elite athlete generally has a very narrow set of skills honed to perfection for use in a very narrow and fixed set of parameters.

There are many people who are worthy of admiration and I'd point to someone, now departed, as a much greater role model. He was Fred Hollows. Worshiping someone who, for a very short space of time can play a sport very well is close to crazy. Expecting them to behave differently to all other humans, in every other field that humans enter, is nuts.

I'll say it once more. I just want people treated equally and with total disregard for their sporting prowess. Hardly an anarchist point of view.

 

[Huge]

Who is Adrian Bailey...? never heard of him. I'll google it now but defending a scumbag for morally corrupt actions is not my go. Fairness, equity and calm cool headed judgement are my watchwords. On this site punishments do not fit the crimes. The punishments some of you expect are outrageous. The moral indignation is even worse.

 

[Coxy]

Put it this way. In almost all lines of work habitual use of recreational drugs would be grounds for dismissal.

In rugby league that's the case, unless you're Andrew Johns.

So if you want fair and equitable treatment you should be outraged that Johns is lauded as a hero.

 

[Huge]

As far as I'm aware his employers did not know he was using drugs on occasion so that is a silly argument ...he could hardly have been treated differently as nobody knew.

Can you not read ?? Do you guys become so sure of what I've written without actually reading it ?? I clearly wrote I DID NOT approve of his extracurricular activities. The fact that YOU and others have lauded him as a hero shows how misguided people can be. I do not regard him as a hero nor do I think he deserves the accolade 'immortal'. My view is he did not do enough on the field for that honour.

Fairness and equity means that HIS misdemeanors are treated the same as any other person. How can you argue against that ? I suppose you can if you think because he was handy on a football field he deserves to be treated like a monster.........but that would be stupid, immature and unreasonable amongst other things...and of course ,that's never been you.

There may come a time in the future when your child is accused of a crime, a crime perhaps of which they were innocent...will you stick up for the rights of the ill informed to stand on the sidelines yelling accusations and calling your child names......like say, rapist,murderer,killer Or will you scream,that is unfair and unjust ??and of course we both know the answer.

Fairness and equity for all,including dickhead scumbag drug taking pricks like Andrew Johns

 

[Charmamba]

I'm not sure what you're arguing anymore :| I know Brisbane are out of the finals and we have little to be excited about this week but oh god BHQ at the moment is every second topic people arguing about the same thing over and over again.