I hate the media!

[mrslong]

I am getting so ticked off that they are making this into a "RUGBY LEAGUE" issue.

Does anybody else have any stories from other sports? I know plenty of unsavoury Surfing party stories (with plenty of high profile surfers and they get up to DISGUSTING things) and I know a good friend of mine had a group sex with West coast Eagles, so you know what, it's really ticking me off that this has turned into a NRL Bash a thon and that people are coming out and saying they're not gonna support League any more because of this.

 

[lynx000]

I agree with both of the last posts. rna I have consistently said that the players bear responsibility and the majority of the responsibility for what happend with Clare and I also said that at least one of them should have had the balls to step in and stop it. I note that Kimmorley in the paper today said, not me, I took one look at what was happening and hightailed it back to my room. Credit for not getting involved, but still not good enough, somebody should have done more.

Coxy, agree with you as well. As I said earlier in the thread, education programs for the young players coming through and consistently reinforcing the message is the way that this will eventually be minimised.

 

[Coxy]

Agree mrslong. Which is why I hope the AFL administrators and fans don't gloat too much. There's some doozies in their closet from what I've heard.

FFS, their clubs have a history of involvement with organised crime in Melbourne!

 

[OXY-351]

It's one thing to say the girl agreed, but who really, in the interests of a just, fair and decent society, will lay the primary responsibility in these situations on the too often doey-eyed (and/or pissed) teenage girl?

People on this forum are happy to bad mouth that Charmane Palvi chick who sleeps around with NRL players. I know she's not a teenager, hence probably a little more "wordly", but she obviously consents to it. No one is saying the NRL players are doing anything wrong in this case, yet they are still taking advantage of a women due to their status as rugby league players. At what age does it become ok for players to take advantage of women?

So when a women openly admits to it as Charmane does, she is labeled a sl*t. It's no wonder so many women who find themselves in this situation come out and claim sexual assault. What would they rather be? A victim, or a sl*t?

 

[Coxy]

It's one thing to say the girl agreed, but who really, in the interests of a just, fair and decent society, will lay the primary responsibility in these situations on the too often doey-eyed (and/or pissed) teenage girl?

People on this forum are happy to bad mouth that Charmane Palvi chick who sleeps around with NRL players. I know she's not a teenager, hence probably a little more "wordly", but she obviously consents to it. No one is saying the NRL players are doing anything wrong in this case, yet they are still taking advantage of a women due to their status as rugby league players. At what age does it become ok for players to take advantage of women?

So when a women openly admits to it as Charmane does, she is labeled a sl*t. It's no wonder so many women who find themselves in this situation come out and claim sexual assault. What would they rather be? A victim, or a sl*t?

Charmyne also said she only ever does it one on one, is never drunk, and does it on her terms (her house, or a hotel). Sounds incredibly slutty the way she puts it, but she comes across as strong and knowing what she's doing.

Generally the ones that seem to come (pardon the pun) out with complaints are the ones who were either very young, very drunk or both.

And again I ask (and you may be getting to that) why can't players see they stand to lose far far far more than a one night stand is worth?

 

[Coxy]

In fact following on from that. Look at teachers. Whether high school or tertiary, and I'm only talking girls of legal age of consent, they would get numerous propositions from female students. Perfectly willing to do it. Huge risk in doing it. All that has to happen is the student to feel scorned and report it to the authorities and that teacher's career is over.

Even when they did nothing wrong.

Obviously the cases where the students are under age are a totally different matter, so please don't think I'm suggesting sex with minors is acceptable if they consent.

 

[Kaz]

Still want to know how people think she's making money. From what?.

She is getting weekly payments from the victims of crime. (or whatever they call it in NZ)

 

[gUt]

I think that is a different situation Coxy because the teacher is in a position of authority and trust and they just can't go there even if the student is over the age of consent.

I have absolutely no problem with Charmane either and no one at all has the right to criticize or judge her. She knows what she wants and she gets it. Maybe sex with super fit dudes is her hobby and she's getting her fill while she has the looks. Good on her imo.

 

[Coxy]

Well no, we all have the right to judge and criticise her based on our own individual standards. But she's entitled to do what she does.

And while I realise teachers have that position of trust etc, so do footballers. Like it or not, they are entrusted with the image and reputation of the sport as a representative of it. That's why they face the consequences they do if a girl "changes her mind".

And don't say you hate that, because that's utterly and completely irrelevant. It's a cold, hard fact.

 

[OXY-351]

And again I ask (and you may be getting to that) why can't players see they stand to lose far far far more than a one night stand is worth?

For sure. Hence my last point. Even if it is fully conensual and seems like a good idea at the time for both parties invloved, when the women wakes up in the morning and realises that her friends don't think she is a god for sleeping with an NRL player, and in fact think quite the opposite, it might be very tempting for a women to play the sexual assault card and turn herself in to the victim.

If she's gone home with a couple of NRL players, it's not like she probably has the highest of morals anyway, so fabricating a story of what happened isn't beyond the realms of posibility.

This isn't limited to the NRL, and I have had a close friend go through a similar experience recently. It's sad that it's come to this, but sometimes it's just not worth flopping it out any more.

Bruno made a good point last night though. The players are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. If they go out and socialise with fans, they run the risk of having stories/photos turn up in the media (let's face it, the media can beat some stuff up a lot of the time, even if they players aren't doing anything overly wrong. All it takes is the allegation these days for the mud to stick). Yet if they don't socialise with fans, they are labelled as arrogant etc.

 

[lynx000]

But the reality once again is, not only footballers but any nuff nuff on the street faces that issue if they choose to sleep around, particularly picking up inebriated girls that there is a risk that they may subsequently face allegations by the girl. That just reinforces what Mrs Long has said, that this isn't an NRL issue, it is happening across all sports and the wider community.

 

[NPK]

DVDA!

hmm..well, Johns and Firman were backs, who were the other 2? [icon_shady

 

[Coxy]

Yeah but Bruno and the players are missing the point. You can socialise without crossing any lines. Hell, you can even get completely drunk and hang out with fans and not make an arse of yourself. Difficult, but possible.

By saying what he did, he's acknowledging the players have no self control and will do something to upset someone.

 

[Coxy]

But the reality once again is, not only footballers but any nuff nuff on the street faces that issue if they choose to sleep around, particularly picking up inebriated girls that there is a risk that they may subsequently face allegations by the girl. That just reinforces what Mrs Long has said, that this isn't an NRL issue, it is happening across all sports and the wider community.

For sure, but in most professions unless you're convicted you don't face losing your career over it.

It's a society issue, yes. And it comes back to alcohol in our society more than anything IMO. But, as NRL players they have to understand the risks and basically avoid picking up randoms at clubs. Risks are far too extreme.

 

[lynx000]

Agree

 

[OXY-351]

I have absolutely no problem with Charmane either and no one at all has the right to criticize or judge her. She knows what she wants and she gets it. Maybe sex with super fit dudes is her hobby and she's getting her fill while she has the looks. Good on her imo.

Neither do I, but the mentality of most people is different when the women openly consents to it as oppossed to says it wasn't consensual. Charmyne is automatically labeled a sl*t, yet the poor defensive 19 year old who claimed seuxal assault is automatically labeled a victim, even though there isn't a shred of evidence to back up her claim.

Once the initial claim is made, it's very had to change people's first opinions. Look at Matthew Johns. If the story about "Clare" bragging to her friends and not appearing to suffer any trauma is true, then apart from cheating on his wife (which they have already dealt with), he has not done anything wrong in my opinion.

If the story is true, then "Clare" is no different to Charmyne in my opinion. She knew what she was in for, and even if extra people did turn up, she was a willing participent in everything that happened. If she wasn't, she would have been displaying trauma right from the start, right Coxy? Seems to me like she had a few days to think about it, realised her friends weren't impressed by it, then used the sexual assault card. You'd think the police would have interviwed her workmates and come to the same conclusion too.

Yet, Johns still had to go through all this trauma himself, and will forever be labelled a sexual assault-er because of this event, or more correctly, the alleged allegations "Clare" put forward.

I agree with Coxy however when he says that players now have to realise that even if they are not doing anything wrong/immoral/illegal, they need to realise that situations like Johns' may happen again, and they have a lot to lose by any women making such allegations, even if they turn out to be baseless.

I do not think this is right (I actually think it stinks that Johns was stood down) and think it's sad it's come to this, but I guess that's just the way the majority of the rest of society wants it these days.

 

[OXY-351]

Yeah but Bruno and the players are missing the point. You can socialise without crossing any lines. Hell, you can even get completely drunk and hang out with fans and not make an arse of yourself. Difficult, but possible.

By saying what he did, he's acknowledging the players have no self control and will do something to upset someone.

To a degree yes. But it doesn't take much for rumors and allegations to spread these days. The way the media is these days, they will latch on to any rumor/allegation and turn it in to a sentionalist story even if they have no facts to back it up.

I think you put it best in your last post ... "The risks are too extreme".

 

[gUt]

Someone already noted this but it's worth repeating Gould's line from last night:

The green light does not always mean go.