Racism drama in the U20's

[Morkel]

The way I interpeted your post, was that if the opposite starts occurring, don't escalate it, essentially ignore it, because people don't like being pulled up on their words. Is that a fair summation?

Either ignore it or diffuse it. Be Bruce Willis ;)

 

[Renegade]

Ignoring it will ensure it will continue. It didn't work for aboriginals/indigenous, why would it work for us?

 

[Renegade]

On a sidenote, when I first heard about this, I was kinda surprised. Brisbane has a long history with darker skinned players whatever their origin, I would've imagined this sort of thing would be absolutely drummed into them their very first day.

Imagine being that guy (IF true) and having to walk into a room and explain yourself to Hodges, Tallis, Sailor, Thaiday, Blair, Backo, Kilroy, etc

 

[Morkel]

Ignoring it will ensure it will continue. It didn't work for aboriginals/indigenous, why would it work for us?

Probably because they were the minority? They didn't have the luxury of ignoring it.

 

[Renegade]

Probably because they were the minority? They didn't have the luxury of ignoring it.

So if we continue to ignore it they'll get tired of it and stop? What a wonderful fairytale.

 

[lynx000]

I get Morkel's (and therefore B4L's) argument of how the comment is or could be perceived as racist in light of the cultural history.

I still maintain the view that if we are going to address racism it has to be one in, all in.

 

[Renegade]

I get Morkel's (and therefore B4L's) argument of how the comment is or could be perceived as racist in light of the cultural history.

I still maintain the view that if we are going to address racism it has to be one in, all in.

I agree, I think what they are talking about is valid, but the suggestions to move forward aren't feasible.

 

[Porthoz]

I think that there is still a large degree of racism in the world and it will remain whilst humans walk the Earth. Yes, there is still racism in Australia, spend anytime on an internet forum and you will see racism, sexism, religious intolerance etc. I was simply questioning B4L's logic behind his contention.

Australia is very tame on that level. European countries are not too bad either anymore, but the US (some States more than others) and South America still have that ingrained in the population. And countries like China, Japan or even Korea don't even try to disguise it...

 

[CaptainHook]

Equality means exactly that.

If we're going to split hairs and say 'hey, you're a white guy - you've been racially vilified - but that's ok - you've had a good run for the last 200 or 2000 years or so...just suck it up and deal with it....

All that means is equality will never happen.

 

[Morkel]

Equality means exactly that.

If we're going to split hairs and say 'hey, you're a white guy - you've been racially vilified - but that's ok - you've had a good run for the last 200 or 2000 years or so...just suck it up and deal with it....

All that means is equality will never happen.

It's not that at all. It's not ignoring it, or doing nothing. In most cases, racism thrown back at us would be a pushing back of sorts. They've either copped it themselves, or at least feel as if they've been treated differently because of their race (whether real or perceived), and they're lashing out. So my solution is to give them nothing to make them feel that way. Worry about my own actions, and, like I'm doing here, suggesting that we can do better ourselves. Even though calling someone a "black ****" may not seem like a big issue, potentially it is, and has far-reaching consequences that few of us will ever have to experience.

 

[Nashy]

It's not that at all. It's not ignoring it, or doing nothing. In most cases, racism thrown back at us would be a pushing back of sorts. They've either copped it themselves, or at least feel as if they've been treated differently because of their race (whether real or perceived), and they're lashing out. So my solution is to give them nothing to make them feel that way. Worry about my own actions, and, like I'm doing here, suggesting that we can do better ourselves. Even though calling someone a "black ****" may not seem like a big issue, potentially it is, and has far-reaching consequences that few of us will ever have to experience.

It's no different to someone being called a white ****. Anything to suggest otherwise is simply unaware of how equality should work by the very definition of the word.

If black people can continue to be racist, there are no equals.

 

[Morkel]

It's no different to someone being called a white ****. Anything to suggest otherwise is simply unaware of how equality should work by the very definition of the word.

If black people can continue to be racist, there are no equals.

I'm not saying that it's not racist or that racism doesn't exist from all sides. But I'm saying that calling them out on it, making as big a deal about it, isn't going to have a positive effect while ever racism continues to be directed at them. Fix up our own behavior first.

 

[Nashy]

I'm not saying that it's not racist or that racism doesn't exist from all sides. But I'm saying that calling them out on it, making as big a deal about it, isn't going to have a positive effect while ever racism continues to be directed at them. Fix up our own behavior first.

Yeah nah. Not how it works. Are you a racist? No. So why should you be subjected to being called a white ****?

Are black people going to stop calling white people out for being racist while the ideal suggests that they shouldn't say anything until they fix their own racism issues?

 

[lynx000]

It's not that at all. It's not ignoring it, or doing nothing. In most cases, racism thrown back at us would be a pushing back of sorts. They've either copped it themselves, or at least feel as if they've been treated differently because of their race (whether real or perceived), and they're lashing out. So my solution is to give them nothing to make them feel that way. Worry about my own actions, and, like I'm doing here, suggesting that we can do better ourselves. Even though calling someone a "black ****" may not seem like a big issue, potentially it is, and has far-reaching consequences that few of us will ever have to experience.

Sometimes during discussions at BHQ the original comment or context to the discussion gets lots. In this case what kicked a lot of this off was the comment by B4L that a person of colour calling someone a white **** was not racist. And I think a number of people jumped in and said it was. I don't think anyone suggested that this then gave the right or opening to call someone something in response which is what you have altered the context of the discussion to be.

So, is it your view that without any prompting a person of colour calling someone a white anything is a racist comment? If so, then you do not appear to be disagreeing with our fundamental disputing of B4L's position. That being, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

And I completely agree with your comment that we can do better ourselves, that it would be a stupid response to a racist comment to return serve in the same manner. I for one as far as I am aware either on the football field or anywhere have ever racially vilified someone.

 

[Morkel]

Sometimes during discussions at BHQ the original comment or context to the discussion gets lots. In this case what kicked a lot of this off was the comment by B4L that a person of colour calling someone a white **** was not racist. And I think a number of people jumped in and said it was. I don't think anyone suggested that this then gave the right or opening to call someone something in response which is what you have altered the context of the discussion to be.

So, is it your view that without any prompting a person of colour calling someone a white anything is a racist comment? If so, then you do not appear to be disagreeing with our fundamental disputing of B4L's position. That being, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

And I completely agree with your comment that we can do better ourselves, that it would be a stupid response to a racist comment to return serve in the same manner. I for one as far as I am aware either on the football field or anywhere have ever racially vilified someone.

Well we're going to go in to semantics here as to what racism is. What I assume B4L means is that the racism that would be directed at us does not come from a position of superiority or dominance. We're not being called "white" in a derogatory way because they consider us to be fundamentally inferior. However, if their attitude towards us stems from their belief that we, as white people, are automatically prejudiced towards them, or are simply lumped in with those that are, then yes, there is just as much prejudice in that mindset. So I think you're both correct, it's just the definition of racism that is in question.

Yeah nah. Not how it works. Are you a racist? No. So why should you be subjected to being called a white ****?

Are black people going to stop calling white people out for being racist while the ideal suggests that they shouldn't say anything until they fix their own racism issues?

As dicky as it sounds, we started it, so it's on us to fix it. I'm not a racist, though like everyone else I've found myself silently judging people on appearance, so maybe I am, maybe we all are to some degree. I don't believe you are racist, the majority of people here aren't. But that doesn't mean we get to wipe our hands clean of racism's effects. In my opinion tolerating anything that can be misconstrued as racism is not acceptable, which is why I understand where B4L is coming from and am backing his right to feel how he does.

 

[Nashy]

Well we're going to go in to semantics here as to what racism is. What I assume B4L means is that the racism that would be directed at us does not come from a position of superiority or dominance. We're not being called "white" in a derogatory way because they consider us to be fundamentally inferior. However, if their attitude towards us stems from their belief that we, as white people, are automatically prejudiced towards them, or are simply lumped in with those that are, then yes, there is just as much prejudice in that mindset. So I think you're both correct, it's just the definition of racism that is in question.



As dicky as it sounds, we started it, so it's on us to fix it. I'm not a racist, though like everyone else I've found myself silently judging people on appearance, so maybe I am, maybe we all are to some degree. I don't believe you are racist, the majority of people here aren't. But that doesn't mean we get to wipe our hands clean of racism's effects. In my opinion tolerating anything that can be misconstrued as racism is not acceptable, which is why I understand where B4L is coming from and am backing his right to feel how he does.

I know what you're saying, but I think this mindset is wrong, and dangerous.

By society, I'm terribly racist. I love a good racial joke, I'll stereotype based on skin colour and culture. Do I do it because I hate them, or think worse of them because of it? Absolutely not. But you would deadset be hard stretched to find a non-racist in this country by the current society definition of a racist.

If someone is being racist, then it needs to stop. But it should be in context, it should be vile, it should be hate filled, it should be talking down about another human about their skin colour. It shouldn't be saying the word nigger, it shouldn't be telling a joke in good humour, where there is no intent to hurt another human. But it is.

So, if that's how society wants to play it, they need to allow both sides to play the same game. Equality isn't equality if people of other cultures get away with calling other people out based on their race.

B4L is welcome to continue feeling how he does, but he's part of a new problem of over correction of wrongs not committed by the majority of the past 2 generations of humans.

It sort of gives a bit to my argument though, that he hasn't been able to come in here and defend himself. Quite typical of an Internet hero who can't think beyond what society tells him to think so it makes them all warm and fuzzy on the inside, because they're doing their bit. Or something like that.

 

[Nashy]

To quote the 25th hour.

And then they want to turn around and blame everything on the white man. Slavery ended one hundred and thirty seven years ago. Move the **** on!

 

[Morkel]

I know what you're saying, but I think this mindset is wrong, and dangerous.

By society, I'm terribly racist. I love a good racial joke, I'll stereotype based on skin colour and culture. Do I do it because I hate them, or think worse of them because of it? Absolutely not. But you would deadset be hard stretched to find a non-racist in this country by the current society definition of a racist.

If someone is being racist, then it needs to stop. But it should be in context, it should be vile, it should be hate filled, it should be talking down about another human about their skin colour. It shouldn't be saying the word nigger, it shouldn't be telling a joke in good humour, where there is no intent to hurt another human. But it is.

So, if that's how society wants to play it, they need to allow both sides to play the same game. Equality isn't equality if people of other cultures get away with calling other people out based on their race.

B4L is welcome to continue feeling how he does, but he's part of a new problem of over correction of wrongs not committed by the majority of the past 2 generations of humans.

It sort of gives a bit to my argument though, that he hasn't been able to come in here and defend himself. Quite typical of an Internet hero who can't think beyond what society tells him to think so it makes them all warm and fuzzy on the inside, because they're doing their bit. Or something like that.

Now you're stereotyping B4L. That's racist.

Seriously though, I completely disagree that using the N word would ever be acceptable by one of us whiteys. Historically, that word was used specifically as a derogatory label for black people. Like I said, same as the C word about women, or the F word about gays.

PS. B4L is a busy man. And he's a good man. I believe his feelings on the subject are genuine and do think the label you've put on him is unfair.